Brand New Boiler is Losing Water Quickly

Eric Hoffert

I have just purchased a brand new Wall Mclain boiler (350K BTU) with manufacturer spec piping in a 100 year old 6,000 square foot house. After replacing 14 (most but not all) air vents on radiators (there are 22 radiators), fixing a visible steam leak and water leak, I am still losing water quickly - within 24 hours or less.

I hear clanging in the pipes often and I hear alot of hissing from air vents. The waterline is filled up to 80% and declines to 0% within 24 hours or less. The water is fed manually into the boiler.

I am spending alot of time - any and all assistance would be most appreciated.

Constantin

Here are some suggestions...

... I'm not an steam expert either. In fact, I'm a mere homeowner. But I have read Dan's excellent "The lost art of steam heating", which is a gem. Buy it and study it, if you haven't already.

Next, I would review all the pipes to ensure that they are pitched properly. Is this a 1 or a 2-pipe steam system?

Have you reviewed the main vents on the returns? Are they large enough? By the sound of your description, you may have a need for multiple Gorton #2 vents...

Do you perhaps have a buried wet return? These are notorious for rotting out.

A couple of photos would really help also. For example, they would help everyone confirm the near-boiler piping as having been done correctly, etc.

Lastly, have you tried finding a pro? See the top of this page, it's a service that might save you a lot of time and aggrevation.

DaveGateway

New boiler?

Why are you posting here if you've just purchased a new 350,000 btu boiler?
I'm sure you paid dearly for it.
Where's your installing plumber/heating professional?

-or-

Is this a lowest bidder disaster.


I'll bet that boiler came in sections and was assembled on site.
Did the fitters leave a bag of spare parts behind?

My advice to you is to check for carbon monoxide leaks even before you look for the steam leak.

Eric Hoffert

Hi

Thanks - it was not a lowest bidder. The installer has been here alot fixing steam and water leaks after the installation and replacing vents too. I am interested in some other opinions that is why I came to this site. Why should I focus on carbon monoxide leaks?

The installation was inspected by the town inspector and they said the piping is well done and was completed professionally to manufacturers spec. It took a team of 5 people 16 hours to install it.

I am concerned with issues outside of the boiler - at least for the moment -

Paul Mitchell_2

if there is no visible leak

I would check if there is any buried return lines. This very well could be the problem. Also maybe the pressure is too high. Not that this would really use more water but you only need less than a pound to heat a normal house. Buried pipes or a leaking hidden line are my guesses.

Eric Hoffert

Hi,

Thanks - I will look into the book and the other resources at the site. I believe that the near boiler piping has been installed to manufacturer's spec.

Concerns have shifted to other areas of the infrastructure - pipes, water quality, radiator valves and vents, etc.

Eric Hoffert

Automatic water feeder recommendations

I posted a message at this site indicating that water is used up too quickly in the boiler (every 14 to 20 hours or so, sometimes even worse).

One suggestion is to install an automatic water feeder. But I am concerned about a malfunction and flooding the house with water when no one is home. What are the recommendations at this site for use (or non-use) of an automatic water feeder?

gerry gill

I'm with Paul

are there any underground return pipes anywhere?

Eric Hoffert

Hi,

Thanks - not to my knowledge although I can check again. I believe that all return pipes are above ground.

One more piece of data - recently the boiler was fed too much water and this required emptying the boiler for a long time. However that episode is over now.

gerry gill

can you post a picture

of the near boiler piping for us..it would help us out..thanks

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

your install may have been done by fitters and got the ok from the inspector as far as near boiler piping but the inspections are not steam specialists --the near boiler piping may be up to specs' on paper but what about the correct "A" and "B" dimensions of the system --

gerry gill

does the water come back

when the boiler shuts down? or did the water just disappear? if it just vanished and doesn't come back when the boiler shuts off, then you have a leak.

Eric Hoffert

the water level goes from 80% down to 0% in 24 hours or less - the boiler does not shut down because I fill it up with water usually just before it is likely to shut down. I fixed two leaks recently - a water leak from a valve and a steam leak from a pipe and the boiler continues to lose water even though there are no more visible steam or water leaks and return pipes are not underground

Weezbo

You are playing a roullette game....

get some one over there who know what he looking at and dont start telling him this that and the other....here's why, you are more likely to waste his time when he should be focusing on what went where last....

gerry gill

okay, well,

the water went somewhere...if there are no visible leaks, no underground pipes to leak...then (i know its a new boiler) is it possible the leak is internal and the steam is going up the chimney?

Weezbo

To be honest there are alot of possibilities,not that ,

not that, then... this, if not this, then what ? follow my meaning here?

gerry gill

yup, would

be nice to see pictures though..just for curiosities sake if nothing else..

t. tekushan

water feeder a band aid

The water feeder in this instance is a bad idea. I this so the problem will be more convenient to ignore?

I'll be the first to admit that a water feeder is a wonderful convenience. BUT... When I came to the building that I have a business in (not in heating or plumbing, but I'm the Boilermeister) we had one boiler that was always feeding water... No one here seemed to notice nor care. There was a leaking return in a pipe chase. It must have been like this for awhile as the boilers steam output was lousy. I think it held about a tablespoon of water for all the scale (hard water town, Cleveland). Repaired leak. Crossed my fingers and put a tanker's load of descaler in there. Fortunately the boiler survived (or at least for the last 7 years). How much convenience is this worth? A lot, but only if you use a feed water meter and pay attention to it.

Jim Burke comfort zone

LOSING WATER

fIRST OFF I WOULD NOT INSTALL AN AUTO FEEder to the system did the installer clean this new steam boiler or just install & go.Sounds like the boiler is surging .When you fill system try this let it run for a time & check to see if water in gauge glass disapearsif it does shut down boiler & watch Gauge glass does water level come back up.If so i would clean boiler or at least skim off .if you dont have any buried piping you would see water leak somewhere Unless it is leaking in fire box .to check this look at chimney to see if you are geeting white smoke .I strongly recomend you have a pro or your installer come & check out this problem many good steam guys listed on this site.GOOD LUCK.Ps weezbo what the heck are you talking qabout you don"t have a clue .

Al Gregory

How many town inspectors know what a Hartford Loop is or anything else for that matter. If it was a Burnham boiler I would say the water is going up the chimney as I have installed and replaced countless numbers of those:( If you hear hissing when the radiators are hot that is where your water is going. If your installer cant figure it out then its time to call in someone that can and get the installer to pay for the repair. Let him know this is whats going to happen if he cant fix it.

Eric Hoffert

Hissing radiators and water loss

Hi,

Thanks for the info. Regarding town inspectors, you may have a point - I don't know the level of expertise.

On the hissing point for radiators I am very curious to learn more. We have a Wall Mclain EGH-85 steam fired boiler. Once it was installed we also replaced many of the radiator vents (since some were old etc.). Since the new boiler has been installed we hear alot of hissing from many of the radiators - not at all times but frequently.
Some people say that hissing is normal but you are indicating it can be an important source of water loss. Unlike invisible leaks, this could be much easier to fix by closing the vents more - correct?

Please advise your recommendations on how to best open or close the vents on a radiator to minimize any water loss (or hissing of it is related).

Thanks-

Eric Hoffert

auto feeders

I believe it was cleaned on install but will check on this. The boiler does surge I believe as water rises up and down in the glass alot. I will try your suggestions as soon as feasible. Boiler is bled a few times a week. Water does not seem dirty which is strange since last boiler always had dirty water when bleeding.

Eric Hoffert

I would much rather get to the root cause than band-aid with a water feeder. However if no root cause can be found then it may be the only option. I am posting at this site to also get some opinions which may help with hard to identify root causes - since our professionals have already eradicated a steam leak, a water leak, replaced many vents, and installed a good quality boiler with manufacturer spec piping (still hoping to send picture)

Steamhead

\"I believe it was cleaned on install\"

This boiler has gasket seals between the sections. Did the installer use any chemicals in the boiler while cleaning it? If so, they may have damaged the seals. Weil-McLain is very specific regarding what not to use- look for this info in the instruction manual.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

DaveGateway

Mr. Hoffert

I've been reading this thread with some amusement since I was the guy who, despite 3 trips to your house (including a meeting with the Peerless rep), didn't get the job. Fair enough, you win some- you lose some. I just have one question. - Still feel like you got a better deal?