W/M CGI Boiler Help

Rookie

Service call customer asked me to look at there WM CGI boiler, couple of problem hot water over heating 40 gallon boiler mate hot up to 007 ciculator, ran by a honeywell 845a other two heating zones have t87f thermostats with erie automatic zone valves, 24 volt transformer to power these two zones.Problem no heat to the zones, transformer is fine when the t&t terminal are tied together on the boiler , the boiler fires up runs to high limit and shuts off evrything normal, the zone valves are open, thermostas call but when they are wired to the boiler, boiler starts it's cycle the quickly turns off. Any ideas.

Sweet_2

Boiler drop off

Sounds like short somewhere in T-Stst wire. Have you varified continuity through T-Stst.And your sure transformer isnt dropping out when energizing Z.V.?? Im guessing 4 wire Erie z.v.

Rookie

T stat

I haven't check the continuity yet in the thermostat wiring,nothing has changed to have both zones not working, the zone valves are open so that circuit is completed to the valves, but when wired to the boiler it will cycle blower comes on and then shutoffs less then ten seconds, remove the zone wiring, tie the burner tt together burner runs perffect, I'm stumped

Sweet_2

Jim

Does the boiler run O.K. with call for heat from boiler mate?

Rookie

Not Sure

The homeowner said he had no heat last night but the hot water was fine, he would get heat only when his hot water was calling once satisfied no more heat. I was getting the eo5 ( overheating above 155 degrees) reading from the boilermate, the boiler mate piping has a mix valve so the high temp is not a danger for now, the mix is set at 120)

Rookie

Just seems strange to have aproblem with the low voltage side, I think this is internal, but the boiler function find when you jumper tt, just strange

Sweet_2

What was the originalservice call for?

Is this a recent install, no heat call?? New ZV?

Rookie

No other problem

No other work has been done in two years

Sweet_2

Jim

So if you jump out terminals BB which is where I see the T-Stat tying in on the CGI controller the boiler runs OK?? When the T stats are brought back in the boiler shuts down?? It sounds like the problem is external. With the Tstats. It wouldnt be the first time I didnt see things clearly though.

Rookie

This is killing me !

Just spent 3 hours going over all the wiring checking continuity, and power all is completely fine. When I click on the boiler it make a clicking sound in the relay, then tries to start 4 seconds then shuts off, if I remove all the end switch wiring tie the tt wires to the boiler it fires no problem.There is no backfeeding,I an truely baffled.Help !!

EBEBRATT_4

Are you using a seperate transformer for the zone valves(you should) or the boiler transformer? If using the boiler transformer it may be to small to run everything at the same time

Sweet_2

Jim

breath buddy youll find it. Iassume youve made sure the problem isnt in the end swichs themselves . Try hooking up a new ZV , bypass the other ZVs. That chattering ???Vent damper??. IT sort of sounds like relay is dropping out when 24V is applied.Or I shuold say the 24V is dropping out under load.

jim_49

Do you have any voltage on the 2 end swith wires going to T+T from the zone valves, and what is on the HWH, a zone valve or separate circ.?? Sounds like 2 trans. bucking each other.

Rookie

r845a

indirect has a r845a wired to a taco circulator, the two zones are erie pop tops.there is no power what so ever backfeeding down the end terminals to the boiler.Seperate 24v transformer, the relay in the boiler will click on and off on occasion when you switch the boiler on and off to reset.The system worked fine for four years, we could have had a surge in power but owner was not sure, nothing makes sense here, I spoke with Wiel McLain they said that idf the tt wires are tied to gether and the boiler runs then the boiler is fine, I agree but something is not checking out, if i turn of the t-stats i get a break in the continuity meter, turn on I have good contact.Transformer is working, zone vlave spower up and open.Give me some more trouble shooting ideas, this one I could have bought a whole new boiler already.

Sweet_2

Jim

You didnt mention that you know for sure its not the end switchs themselves.

jim_49

Try this, take R+W from 1st. fl. t-stat and wire it to T+T on boiler. Disconnect power to the zone valves by cutting 24volt wire and leave both valves in manual open position. If this works, get rid of those Z.V.S.

Rookie

End switch

OK I did take the first floor t-stat leads went directly to tt on boiler boiler fired up, then i thought that the zone valves maybe the problem, but both of them? So maybe a surge went through the zone valves,but the zone valves still open and close when the thermostat is turned on or off.All the low voltage is wired with wire nuts no zv board man that would be nice.

Sweet_2

Jim

REmember end switches dont play any role in the T-stat wiring they just tell the boiler to kick on. So even if ZV opens that dont mean end switch will tell boiler to kick on .

Rookie

I'm with you

So tracing it back to the zone valve there maybe a problem with the end switch so how do I go about testing that. Do you run across faulty end switched often, i mean I had a taco board that had a bad end switch but the extra end switch was fine, call Taco and they said a may have been a defective board, so testingthe end switches on the zone valves what the procedure.Thanks sweet I'' be back have to get the kids from Hockey practice

Sweet_2

Jim,

the TT terminals where you hook the ZV , its getting its signal from the boiler. If the ZV powers up and opens but the boiler doesnt fire, good chance its the end switch.

Rookie

Going Back

with my electrician going to take a hard look at the zone valves, I just have a feeling it is in the boiler even though nothing proves my theory.Man this is a bugger.

Rookie

Erie Power Heads

seem to be the culprit, the end switches on the power heads are no good, both of the power heads do not complete the call, what the heck.Has anyone ever seen this? Now I have to find two replacement heads ( No one sells them on this little island of Pain)or just take them out and install a couple of Taco zone valves, this project is a stinger how can you charge for all the time, man .

kevin coppinger_4

this is .....

one of the reasons why I like the Taco ZV controls...Lets you know whats going on.....also allows you to prioritize HW w/ a circ...I would go with a Honeywell.kpc

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Paul Mitchell_2

just an idea

T87s heatr anticipators are bad.
Zone valve end switches are bad.
Boiler mate needs a flo control or a zone valve to stop flo

Rookie

Yes

I'm with you 100 percent kevin, those Taco boxes are slick, takes out the guess work and the junction boxes jammed with thermostat wire.

kevin_24

when ever zone valves are used i use taco zvc404with priority for storage tank.easy wiring and lights tell what is or isnt working .transformer is inside.