Who's right in this case?

Ken C.

My boss quoted a homeowner a price to replace a water heater. When I arrived at the house this morning, I couldn't shut the gas off to the heater because the gas cock was stuck. The handle on this gas cock was very fragile, and broke off with only moderate force from my Channel-Locks (and no, I did not force the valve past the stops, because it wouldn't move in either direction).

I told the homeowner there would be an additional charge because the gas shutoff valve was defective and needed to be replaced. He immediately became upset and demanded to know why the valve needed to be replaced. I told him that the valve was frozen and I couldn't close it. He then saw the broken valve handle and said, "You broke it, I should send YOU a bill!"

I've been down this road before, I'm not going to argue with customers, and trying to reason with this type of customer was pointless, so I told my apprentice, "Pack up our tools, we're leaving." As we left, the customer called my boss.

My boss met me at the shop, and had me put the water heater on his van, so he could go and do the install. He wasn't mad at me, but said I should have just changed the gas cock rather than risk losing a sale and pissing off a customer. He also said I could have shut the gas off at the meter, but I disagree with him. If we had to shut the gas off at the meter to service an appliance, then what's the point of having individual shutoffs? In fact, it's required by code.

Now, what my boss says, and what he does are very different.

What he says: we should get $XXX for a 40-gallon gas water heater. He is always telling me to try to get more money for service calls, try to add extras to every service call, and get paid for every task we do on a job.

So, I follow his directions. The gas cock WAS bad, and it should have been replaced for an additional charge. When you replace a water heater, the price should be based on the assumption that the water and gas shutoff valves work. I quoted the customer a price, BEFORE I did the job. He refused, so I left. I don't consider that walking off a job.

My boss totally contradicted himself. He quoted the customer a price that is $150 less than what he said we should charge for a water heater. He threw in an extra for free. And this isn't the first time. On another water heater job, he dropped the price TWICE after the customer began haggling (that really ate at me too, lowering your price twice convinces the customer you were charging too much to begin with, even though the original price was very reasonable).

I feel like saying to him, "Are we running a plumbing business, or playing 'Let's Make a Deal?" My reasoning is, if we don't sell a water heater to one customer, it will only be a short time before we will sell it to another customer.

The only reason I can see for him being willing to cave in to tightwad customers is that it appears he is desperate for work. The service side of our company (which also does construction) is slow, yet other companies around here have more work than they can handle.

I can somewhat see the customer's point of view. He was quoted a price and expects us to honor that price. Maybe that quote should have come with a disclaimer such as, "That price is for a standard installation. If additional work is needed to bring it up to code, that will be extra." I doubt my boss gave any disclaimer; details are not his strong point.

Do I have to give this spiel to every customer before I touch any valve, "There is a chance that this valve, which I need to close in order to do the job, may not work due to old age, corrosion, etc. It is a fact that valves fail or break, and it would fail or break whether you touched it or I touched it. Therefore, if there is a problem with the valve, our company is not responsible for it, and there will be an additional charge." That would get tiresome, but some people love to use the famous line, "It didn't leak until YOU touched it."

Do you think I'm being reasonable (or unreasonable)? People complain how hard it is to find a plumber or get good service from a plumber, yet my boss is quick to "cave in" to customers' unreasonable expectations, in my opinion.

gerry gill

thats why

I like working for myself.

Rick Kelly_3

Dealing

I think you wrote a very good detailed explanation of the situation including recognizing the position that your boss is in.

Personally, I would have done what you did. I think most of us Wallies would agree that we offer an extremely valuable service. A service that we must be paid for. In truth, I wouldn't have even been on that job. I don't haggle. I negotiate. If someone doesn't like my fair price, I get out of their way and allow them to find someone else. I know the work we do is expensive to someone of limited means but I for one am not in the position to subsidize my customers. There's no point in taking on work for little or no profit. It's easier to stay home and watch football

GO PATS!!!

Sweet_2

Gas stop

I hear what your saying. WE always include a new gas stop with any appliance we install. Another safety precaution to take and thats always a plus.I under stand up sells and think there a good thing for business. Your right the BOSS man should do as he says and requires of his emplotees, funny thing that$$$$.

Mark Eatherton1

Good will...

For the cost of a gas valve ($5) and 5 minutes of labor($15) you irritated not only the customer, but also your boss. I allow my employees some levity in this situation, and only ask that they point out their good will to the consumer so that they know what a good deal they got. That consumer will then tell 5 other people what a good service he got from you. If you make him mad, he'll tell 10 people what an injustice you did to him. Weigh the consequences. Which is going to best for the company over all. Good will or bad will.

Sometimes, you have to step back from the situation and say "What would I want as a consumer??" and quit nit picking the profitability of each and every job. If things are THAT tight, maybe its time to consider another job, or another trade.

Doing the right thing doesn't always have a profit margin attached to it...

JMHO

ME

Darin Cook_3

You followed your bosses instuctions

Do I agree with them not really? It really would have been alot easier to replace the gas cock and let the customer know you took care of a problem. But you as a employee did what he wanted. I worked for a company like that for ten years. They had what I called the " rule of the day ". It virtually made no matter what you did wrong and they would come out with a new " rule of the day " to counter what they had said the day before. But then again I worked for a family business and I wasn't " family ". If things are slow and dificult for your boss and the company , perhaps he should be a little more forthcoming and have the " team " work together. You can't let the chickens rule the roost so to speak when you own a company. But you must stick to your rules.

hr

Then there is always the flying connection

A five dollar valve and 10 seconds time

hot rod

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Unknown

Hot Rod

don't drop the valve.

Unknown

Ken here is my answer

you live and learn.

It is never a bad idea to take the customer to the equipment, explain what you are going to do for them for the money they are going to pay you. Then include a very brief statement concerning possible contingencies that may arise. It just makes it easier later on when those things do arise. I find it is how I present things to the customer and my ability to communicate.

A written disclaimer on the work agreement is a great idea and it will always hold up in court.

I do not agree on giving things away in the normal conduct of business. It is however never bad to repair or replace something small that will develop good customer relations.

Murph'_5

AGA valves are only

> don't drop the valve.





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Wayco Wayne_2

We include a new

gas cock whenever we change the appliance. Also for the price of the gas cock you could have been done and made money in the time lost packing back up and going back to the shop. Sounds like your boss wants it both ways which shows how hard it is to be a boss. This should be discussed with everyone in the shop and a standard policy set. I also don't agree with trying to add costs after you're there. Customers hate that. Charge enough that you have some lee way to cover unexpected things. Save the Acrimony for large problems. WW

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Murph'_5

AGA valves are only

three dollars mail order. Change the WH, gas valve, whatever. Offer an explanation at the end of the job about the extra charge and an option to pay extra if the customer feels it was appropriate, most will if it is not extraordinarly expensive. sounds like a commission deal. Easy for the boss to underbid. how much were you trying to get for this "extra service" might be important to the discussion!


Murph'

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Ken C.

In retrospect,

the price I proposed to change the gas cock may have been a bit high, given the time and material involved, but the customer didn't say the price was too high. Instead, he said he shouldn't have to pay anything for a new valve.

mp1969

I am with WAYCO

New gas cocks should always be figured into the cost of a heater install along with draft tests and possible flue updates!
I have visited this question on this site before and most reputable installers sell up and sometimes delete items to meet budgets.
Selling low and trying to sell add-ons is always a tough sell.Liability concerns are the reason for always changing the gas valve(s)

MP 1969

ScottMP

I think he brings up

some good points. This is a good conversation for the wall and we can all learn here.

My opinion is that on this job it would have been better to replace the valve and discuus it with the owner later. If the refused to pay then learn the lesson and move on.

The lesson is that the new gascock should be in the quote. If its a large house with alot of applainces this can be more than five minutes. What if a an appliance wont re-light ?

A quote for a HWH should be $ *****, $***** if the gas cock must be replaced and $ ***** if a new stop is required.

You sound like you have a better grasp of the situation than your boss, But, walking off the job made the situation worse. You should have done the job and let your boss deal with the customer.

How come nobody tells the dentist " Why do I need a root canel, you touched it last "

Scott

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eleft_4

Scott, you are correct,

I would like to add, if the valve was stuck why did Ken C. take a chance try to force it with out first turning off the gas at the meter.

Safety first, Ken C. is lucky the valve or pipe didn't break, how then would have this story turned out?

al

Tony_8

my 2 cents

My installed price includes a gas cock, ball valves on either side of the water end, vent material to the stack or tee, and unions on all piped connections. I've never spent more than $ 30 on all these on one job, and I've gotten some great looks of pleasant surprise from a homeowner when they found a better appliance set-up for the quoted price. Besides, the next one will be easier and I will sleep better.

EJW

Amen Gerry!!

EJW

Amen Gerry!!

Mark Hunt

Catch 22


Replace the valve at no charge to the customer and try to explain it to the boss.

Try to charge the customer for the valve, make the customer mad AND try to explain that to the boss.

Next time you find yourself in a situation like that, call the boss and let him be "the boss". Some battles just aren't worth starting Ken. That customer should have paid for the new valve, it was old and no longer funstioned the way it was meant to. You were right. Your boss should make it a policy to allow for a simple change like that one. All of this could have been avoided if he had just built 5 bucs into the price.

Mark H

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Sweet_2

In retrospect

I think this scenario passes through all of our work days more than we realize. The bottom line is we are responsible for the health of the nation, as hard as it may be in business at times we need to always consider the health and wellbeing of our customers first and the buck as payment for that.

bob_44

How about

loosening the nut on the back of the cock one turn and giving it a rap to pop the tapered plug loose before you bust the handle off. bob

Tom_35

Have you ever figured what it costs to get a customer?

The actual cost for our customer to obtain a new customer is close to $300. Some companies may be able to get customers much cheaper, some may spend much more. The bottom line is that it cost a substantial amount of money to get a customer.

We have a policy of "Do the right thing" for the customer. Our guys would not blink an eye and providing a $4.00 gas cock, some pipe dope, and a minute of labor in order to make sure that the customer was happy and that the installation is safe.

If you figure the LTV (life time value) of that customer, it's a no brainer to take care of the simple gas cock replacement.

As some of the others have said, figure it in the sale. But, if you don't---do the right think and replace what needs to be done and don't make a big deal out of it. That same satisfied customer may be having you replace their boiler, furnace, or whatever down the road. Screw up by walking away on a $4 part, and you could be losing lots of sales in the future.

INHO---

Tom A