Copper steam header

Unknown

I had the header dropped in 3 inch , thinking I'm ahead of the game , and then ..... no 3 inch union ! Called around to every supply house and couldn't find one , not even a flange . So we took it all apart and downsized the header . I was not happy .

We dropped the 3 dry returns to the floor and added a main vent to one of em . The homeowner was elderly so we made the steam boiler as hands-off as possible with the probe LWCO and auto feeder .

Unknown

Another Friday steam replacement

and this one was in critical condition . When I pulled up to the home I saw a huge white cloud billowing out of the chimney . The lady of the home told me she had to refill the boiler a few times a day .

The copper header lasted a long time . Looking at the lettering on the fittings I would guess at least 30 years or better . We also checked for any resweats on the header . None I could see .

ScottMP

Now cut that out

No copper on steam Ron, it dosn't ...... well it won't ..... Eventually it will ......

Damn you got me on that one.

It must be those DWV fittings

nice job as allways Ron.

Scott

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Dave L_2

drop header

Love those drop headers there Ron. Nice dry steam !! Why all the copper on the return lines ??

Nice work , Dave L

DaveGateway

Hey ,Ron.


The old one looked fine. You should have left it alone.


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Constantin

Great work as always

Ron, I love the variety of installs you do. Each time, you show attention to detail, plumbness, etc. It's too bad you didn't get your 3" header, but I presume that with all that height and a drop header that the steamer will be happy as is.

jesse the great

ron jr

ron do all the supply houses in your area suck?? Im just curious because i asked you once about useing a copper Y fitting on your hartford loop and you told me that in long island trying to get fittings is "hit or miss" . you would think that the supply house that you use most often would stock 1 1/4 - 3 inch pipe and fittings just for you, especialy seeing how many steam jobs you do a year. or the supply houses inyour area are just like the yankees "they suck"

Unknown

I took a cursory look

at wherever I could from the inside of the pipe . I didn't see any flaking off . If the copper wasn't scrapped already , I'll take some pics of cutouts Monday . With the transition from steel to copper on the header , I'm assuming the copper is as old as the boiler , which wasn't the original .

I just want to assure everyone that I'm not an advocate of using copper for steam mains . But from time to time we do see sytstems like this that run fine . Thanks alot Scott for the post .

Unknown

We did hear some knocking and gurgling

while the system heated up after being down a few hours . With the uninsulated mains and real cold basement , it's to be expected . The missing 3 inch union really pissed me off cause I had everything screwed together . So the choice came down to sending someone back to the shop and wasting a few hours , or dropping the main size down . Really isn't much of a choice with temps in the single digits outside . Thanks alot Constantin .

Unknown

Dave , we do nothing but drop headers now

and my educated opinion is it lessens carryover water into the mains . The copper return lines are a necessity to provide heat to the homeowner in one day . And so far we haven't had problem one using copper . Thanks Dave .

Unknown

Up to 2 inch is really no problem

out here . Anything over and you're probably going to be driving all over . I had a supervisor tracking down 4 inch fittings for 1/2 a day and could only get a handful of what we needed . I can't really blame the supply houses - they're in the biz to make money just like the rest of us . Anything that doesn't sell gets taken over on the shelf by something that does sell .

Unknown

Ya think ????

will smith_2

Love to see a job work!

S Milne

Ron

WHat I've read is that it would line the insideof the boiler with copper "plating". YOu have a perfect chance to show us what happens inside the boiler. Any chance to break open a section and see what it looks like ?

Scott

Jim S

Guess i`m spoiled

the older supply houses around here have all kinds of fittings,i once asked for a 4"x3" reducing cast 90 and the guy pulled one right off the shelf.

Some of the buildings these guys operate out of have been there since the late 1800`s early 1900`s.

Oh, by the way nice work Ron, I tend to use your stuff as an example of what my own finished product should look like.

Keep up the good work.

lchmb

copper

Here in the lovely state of NH I think just about every steam replacement is done in copper. I have seen a number of system's that have been in the field 20 years and never had a leak. One would wonder what the inside look's like. I just recently went to a house that had copper run complete to every radiator. BTW Ron if you need some I have a couple 3" union's in the back of my van, I'll run em over!! Nice job!!!

Boiler Guy

DWV

So, my eyes did not deceive me. Ron, were the 3" fittings drainage grade? If so, it shows the quality of old vs new. Do you know what grade of pipe was used?

We still use DWV copper on a lot of our hot water installs because I prefer the TY and Y connections for better flow conditions. Any one ever fabricate their own "monoflo" fitting out of a DWV copper TY ??

Unknown

Sure can

The boys split this 6 section in half to get it out . It's still in the truck . I'll take some pics of the inside . I did run my hand on the inside of the 3 inch header in a few spots . Felt as smooth as silk . When the copper flakes off is it microscopic ?

Unknown

I was looking for

the grade of pipe , couldn't find it . But the fittings were DWV grade . We cut the header off almost intact and it wasn't heavy at all . I'd guess the pipe was DWV too . I'll check Monday when I take some pics of the inside of the boiler .

Unknown

YES !

You coulda hopped in your Lear , landed at Republic , only a few miles down the road , and been there .

Yeah I often wonder how an almost all copper system would survive . Say it was all copper or steel convectors , and the only cast iron component is the boiler . You ever see a system like that ?

Thanks alot Lchmb .

Unknown

Thanks Will

I love to see a job work too . With the weird pipework in the basement , this one was dicey . Hey are you the Fresh Prince ?

S Milne

I don't know Ron

I think DAn spoke about it plating the inside of the boiler, almost a sort of electrolise action.

I think ?

Scott

Bruce M.

3\" Union

Another great looking install Ron. Did you try AF Liberty in Hicksville? He has a great supply of uncommon fittings and pipe. He seems to have every NIBCO fitting ever made including the cast copper ones. They also stock the Taco Vortech Air Separators.

Bob Harper

chimney connector clearances?

Is that pegboard I see? 18" clearance to combustibles off single walled pipe. Where's the flue clean out? Baro. should be closer to the appliance. Should have vented straight up to a 90 ell, then over to the thimble. Make the water pipes fit around the venting.

Otherwise, looks nice.

Unknown

Didn't notice the pegboard

Will adress that when we go back to clean the system , thanks . Beats me where the flue cleanout is . Barometric should always be closer to the chimney ( NFPA 31 ) . Venting can be done many ways and still work . The water pipes are fine where they are . Hey , one legitimate concern out of 5 aint too bad . Care to post some pics of your fine work , Mr. Harper , so that I can critique ?

Bob Harper

intent

Ron, my point wasn't to trash you but to educate all. Most HVAC Techs I've seen focus on the appliance and other mechanical controls, yet give little thought to the venting. What I'm suggesting is to lay out the venting BEFORE any water pipes are run when possible to get the best venting performance with what you have to work with. If you're doing all new piping, that's a chance to move some pipes so the vent can flow better. -Getting more important as houses get tighter. The casual attention to clearances is rampant. I rarely see chimney connectors that meet clearance. Please reference what section in 31 says to put the baro. close to the breech and not the appliance connection.
When you post pics of your work, others will critique it. I read that by the ton every day on this forum and often, it isn't too friendly. I've never seen an internet forum that is allowed to be the way this one is. I've written to Dan and he seems comfortable with it. My post may have seemed it but it was not malicious in its intent. take this for what it's worth--some will learn while others will attack. It just bugs me when I run into jurisdictions where they are trying to license installing fireplaces, liners, and chimneys as HVAC contractors yet those who sit in authority practice outside of the codes, listings, and standards.

I'm amazed and impressed by the knowledge expressed on this forum. I'd just like to see some of that same expertise expressed in venting issues.
For the record, I said I thought you did a nice job overall. I just thought it could have been better.
Fire away...

Unknown

Sorry about that

I could have sworn that NFPA31 stated the barometric should be as close to the breeching as possible . We try to keep the barometric that far away so we can get good test readings . Ever take a reading with the barometric right on top of the boiler ?

Truth be told , we really don't put as much consideration into venting as we should . When you're dealing with an install like this , to be done in one day , the venting is just a small piece of the puzzle . Is it functional ? Sure . Was there plenty of draft ? Yep . But it could've been piped for easier access .

Bob , of course we know we can a better job on every install . I'm always my worst critic , and seeing the pics on my computer after the job's complete makes me want to go back and redo some things . I really do appreciate constructive criticism when it is indeed that - constructive . Your first post did not come off that way . Your " nice job " at the tail end seemed sarcastic to me . But hey , shoot away . I've been posting pics of my work on this website for years . I've got thick skin .

Still waiting to see some pics of your work . How's your skin ?