can you use a tekmar control with munchkin?

Jake Timmerman_3

Is there a tekmar control that can be used with the munchkin to get boiler reset and not hurt the performance of the modulating gas system. How do they work together? I am trying to figure out a control strategie for a simple system that has basement radiant, the rest of the house hydro-air, and an indirect dhw. Also can you reset the Forced air temp, say, from 180 down to 120?

Paul Pollets

Vision 1 control

You don't need a Tekmar with a Munchkin. The Munchkin has its own proprietary control for outdoor reset....Vision 1 for simple outdoor reset with DHW tank sensor, Vision 2 and Vision 3 for more complex zoning and mixed temps. The control package can be ordered with the Munchkin, and is inexpensive.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Chuckles_3

The Vision I package is cheap, but it is not that good. The reset curve, for example, is always a straight line, while Tekmars offer nonlinear curves based on the type of radiation used. (In my own experience with the Vision I and CI baseboard, a nonlinear curve would help a lot.) Tekmars have many more customization options. Tekmar also has open documentation (downloadable from the web) while Munchkin tries to keep the Vision I adjustments secret from the homeowner.

As you already realize, if you connect a standard tekmar to a Munchkin, you'll lose the modulation. But Tekmar has a new modulating controller (263?), and there is a Munchkin interface board that accepts the analog modulating input. In other words, it can be done, but it is a hassle and also more expensive.

chuck shaw

You just dont get it

There is not a plan to keep it "secret" from the homeowner. The way it was explained to me, is that HTP was only going to sell to certified contractors. Not once did anyone tell me it was a "secret". Read into anyway you like. If your contractor told you it was a secret maybe he saw your VCR blinking "12:00" and figured you would probally screw it up and blame him.

Also, HTP offers an interface board, that will accecpt either the 0-10 VDC output from a Tekmar or, if it has the 0-20 millamp out put, you can put a 500 ohm, 1/4 watt resistor in parallel with the circuit and you can use that also.

If, you went to HTP's class, you would realize that the heating curve is pretty linear, but you have plenty of ways to manipulate it, to make it work how you want.

Tekmar is a great control, but it is not the only one on the market, and HTP has done (what I feel) is an excellet job with the Vision packages.

Rebel

Constantin

Agree...

As best as I can tell, HTP wants to encourage heating professionals (as opposed to hacks) to take it's classes to properly learn Vision 1, 2, and 3 control strategy, as opposed to putting a lot of data on the internet and hoping for the best.

As a homeowner, I find the documentation for a Tekmar to be dense, at best. Ditto for the Viessmann installation/setup information. I cannot comment on HTP, because I haven't reviewed their Vision 1 documentation. As best as I can tell, all of these families of controls are capable, yet are complicated to program.

IIRC, none of them allow a PC to be hooked up which sends easily pre-configured settings to the boiler CPU... Instead, the installer must toggle values back and forth using a limited set of buttons. Thus, training becomes a must, because it's not possible to simply configure a heating system on-screen, telling the programmer what is hooked up where and letting the program AI figure out for you what the settings need to be.

Until "idiot-proof" configuration becomes possible, locking hacks and HO's out of programming the Munchkin is in the interest of HTP. For one, it limits the number of hacks (and HO's) getting into the finer points of Munchkins and causing massive tech-support calls. They're not the only company either, Viessmann also locks people out of most of the controls as well.

For those that want to continue using Tekmar, HTP has brought out a interface board. IIRC, it even allows modulation control, so you can get full functionality from a Munchkin on a Tekmar controller. Which package is more capable is up to the installer to decide. I happen to think that either family of controllers will do a fine job in most situations.

hydronicsmike

Jake

yes, a tekmar 263 Boiler Control can be used to modulate a single Munschkin Boiler with their interface module.

If you have any questions, please feel free to call me at any time at 250-545-7749, Ext. 214.

Best Regards

www.tekmarcontrols.com

Mike

Roger M

Hate to change the subject, but you should look at the Caleffi iRadiant line of controls. You can integrate hydronics with forced air heating, cooling, and solve the entire system from one thermostat. Check the web site at www.caleffi.us and go to application manuals for an inexpensive solution to HVAC.

Sincerely,

Roger Michaud
Caleffi

Jake Timmerman_3

Thank you all. To answer my second question, can you modulate the water temp in the forced air loop based on the outdoor temp?

Mark Hunt

Chuckles


I think you know that HTP is keepnig nothing secret.

The fact that just this past week alone we saw several posts where Munchkins were never set-up according to factory specs illustrates HTP's reluctance to just let anyone at even more complex controls.

There was a post here where a homeowner wanted to "adjust" the gas to the Munchkin to try to tweak it. "Little" knowledge is a dangerous thing. "Little" knowledge and a screwdriver is deadly!

If what we do is simple enough for an average HO to play with after we have gone, then it should be simple enough to do without us, which is apparently the new message here at The Wall.

Mark H



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

There are several ways to do this...

IIRC, the vision 2 package can handle up to 32 different zones, with different curves on each one. Perhaps a "mere" Vision 1 system can modulate
a motorized three-way valve... so the vision 2 could be overkill.

Alternatively, you could install a smart 3-way motorized mixing valve ahead of the radiant floor slab in the basement. The iSeries from Taco, or the dekamatic from Viessmann for example, have OR built in. That way they can modulate primary loop temp down to the floor temp completely independent of what the boiler is doing.

Lastly, you could go dirt simple and have a TRV ahead of the floor system. Adjust it so that the water will never be hotter then the design-day temp of the tubing (110°F?, help me guys!). Have the pump on a on-off with the basement thermostat, and you're all set. Not as elegant, not quite as energy efficient, but it works.

No matter what you do, have the take-offs for the fan coil and the IDWH ahead of the radiant slab. If you use closely-spaced T's on a pri-sec system for this, you'll create a cascade of temps when all zones are open.

Weezbo

Thank You sir for visiting....here and i would also like to

thank you for having Bill Herbst, present your materials In Alaska. He has being doing an excellent job in presenting the materials and controls.Last year i purchased the computer programme,and have been explaining the benifits to every one from mall owners to home owners of the advantages of quality controls and installing finely machined hydronic caleffi parts on many of our new installs. Thank you once again,from the North Pole ,Alaska. *`/;)