how would you handle this

Matt_21

we replaced a boiler at a customers house. At the beginning of december we got a call the boiler was down. a tech went and found a wire on one of the existing zone valves (located in another room from the boiler) was broken. repaired the wire, boiler started and all was fine. end of december we get a call no heat in the family room . tech found the zone valve was sticking. (this was a different valve. they have 6 valves, three zones.) removed the head, reinstalled it and the zone was working again.
get a call this morning. i talk to the owner, ask what's wrong. the family room is cold again. the rest of the house has heat but she insists the boiler isn't working. wants to wait till the end of the day to have repaired. tech goes out. the family room is 70 degrees and operating. mentions to the owner may want to replace all the valves and wiring since the valves and wiring are about 40 years old. the owner doesn't want to hear it, never had any problems before we replaced the boiler and doesn't want to hear the boiler isn't the problem. i'm not sure how to convince her our installing the boiler and her valve problems are a coincidence.

Pinball

First of all, your first mistake was Not replacing the z/v's at the time of install. I ALWAYS replace all components of the system (not counting distribution)I include it in the price of the installation and and in writting. If not including anything is a way to be a competitive bidder, It just ain't worth the job in the first place. And, If not replacing anything, it's in the contract stating that it is not covered under any warrantee.

Now to try to convince her it's not your fault... Well try comparing it to an old car. You already replaced the engine and drive train , now the suspension needs work.
any mechanical part Will fail sooner or later.
By the way, Does she hold you responsible for a TV that went bad after the install? (not being wise, just a comparrison) Explain that while it is PART of the system, It is not part of the install,and as such if she wants it fixed, she pays....or Freeze!

Good Luck...your gonna need it on this one!

Al

Pat Clark

We used to

just replace the boiler also. Didn't take too many customers just like you have to educate us. We now replace all controls when replacing the boiler. Makes for a much nicer job (you get to repipe everything straight and neat), you bypass problems with old controls failing soon after (which seems they like to do - murphys law) and you can slap your company sticker on the boiler and be proud of the job you have done.

Pat Clark

Matt_21

thanks for the

advice on replacing everything. i think that's the way we'll go from now on.

Mad Dog

Ok Matt, you'r e learnin about the LCD-type of customer

LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. I know just how you feel, I've been there many times before. I learned a long time ago, to put it all in writing, get signitures, AND VERBALLY REITERATE IT before you take the deposit that: "THIS IS WHAT THE PRICE INCLUDES. THIS DOES NOT COVER PIPING, WIRING, ET CETERA OUTSIDE OF THE BOILER ROOM." From time to time I let down my guard and get a beating like you are getting. Just got one recently - in fact. Replaced a large residential 2 pipe steam system boiler. New boiler kept going off on low water. The house was very old and had ancient steam tunnels where the mains ran out to. Long story short, After crawling through the 30" high dirt catacombs like a Tunnel Rat in Vietnam....45 (Maglight) in hand for over 100' I found that the return had holes so big you could fit all 4 fingers of your hand in it. It had been leaking for years. Anyway, I told the homeowners what I had found and they were relieved: " oh great, when are you gonna fix it?" In most cases, I would've shot them a price and charged them for it......but then I thought...these people had been trouble from day one: The secreatry had warned me that "these people are too much." As we were signing the contract to convert from oil to gas, they were asking me how much their gas bill would be..blah blah. Anyway, we needed the job, so we took it. The first day of the job, we were accused of cutting the phone lines "you must have....they were working fine before you came..." The next day, we asked if the phones were ok....."oh yeah my son left it off the hook in his room..." (no apolgies). THe next day we had to shut down the gas. After it went back on, she said that NOW!!!!! one of the burners was not working on the stove. Don spent 45 minutes taking it apart, cleaning it to no avail.....then the housekeeper came in the room and asked him what he was doing???? She shook her head in disgust..."these people kill me....that hasn't worked in 3 years." Next, they were asking when we were going to fix the several plumbing problems they had "mentioned" during the walk through estimate. A slow bathtub drain, a slow sink, and a leak in a ceiling. I was astounded and replied: "I SAID I would 'take a look' at those things and let you know what I thought...not that I was fixing that too1" She started getting wacky on me and called hubby at work. Then I had to get on the phone with him. We were halfway through the job and they owed me a lot of $$$$, so I stupidly said I would take care of it. I had though I was getting a good price, but by the time, we did the boiler, water heater and all these assorted plumbing things, we were dying. Every night after we left, these people would call the office with their concerns: "Are you guys going to do this???? That? and that question they were obssessed with.....how much is our gas bill gonna be? Is this system you putting in efficent?" No matter how many times, we would explain things, we'd have to do it all over again the next day. These people had never had gas heat before and had not even been in this new house during a winter season, but they kept up their "efficency" and high gas bill concerns every chance they got. So, did I want to now replace 100' of return through the steam catacoms FOR FREE????? No way, but this madness had to stop! Although I got the living crap beat outta me on this job, I decided that there was no way I would take another penny from these people...because, then , they would never leave me alone. I called the husband, told him what I had found, that it was a 2500.00 job, but that we would fix it for free........HOWEVER!!!!!!!! This is the end of the line!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We're done after this, ok? "alright, I know you guys were here alot longer than you thought." Longer? a 2 week job took 3 1/2 weeks!!!!! So I ate it. This was not the end though! I though they were finally behind us....and then the call came in: "we've got no heat, now" I get up there. The nice manifold I had built for the vapostat and high limit pressuretrol was used as step stool by the pipe coverer. I picked that back up and thightened it...boiler still wouldn't run. Looked behind boiler. The idiots had also stepped on my blocked vent switch wires. I showed the wife just so she didn't think it was us (didn't even mention billing her, but quick as anything she said..." Oh...that's too bad....I guess you'll have to send them the bill." 2 months go by. The husband: "we had the gas company in here to see why our gas bill was so high and he found the reason......you had the pressure control set way too low....he adjusted it back up where it should be.....3 1/2 psi....but now...those main vents you put in......they have alot of water shooting out of them...can you come back and fix them?" I had had enough and finally let him have it....lectured him on life,vapor systems and anything else I felt like getting off my chest. I also told him that he had taken advantage of my good nature for too long and that the party was over. This is what you have to tell these slugs, Matt. Just because you didn't get it all in writing doesn't mean you have to be their slave for every little whim they have. Tell them, they have gotten 3 free servcie calls that were not even your fault, but that the next one they will pay for. It nice to say that on every job everything should be repiped and wired, but that is in the perfect world. Sometimes we really need the job and the money. Is it a good practice, of course, but so is paying your bills on time. Learn from it Matt and lose thes losers asap. Next time, have a tight contract...tell them what they are getting and what they are NOT GETTING. This too shall pass. Mad Dog

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Jon_2

Agree with Mad Dog

A new customer calls, no heat could I look at it. Go to house and find a Glow-Core boiler with both BB and an airhandler. How old is ii? I ask. One year old. What a piece of crap, wiring is a rat's warren, piping is a nightmare. I ask "Have you called the people who installed this?" Answer "Yes, but they won't come here anymore." "Why not?" I ask, no anwser. O-Boy got a live one but will try. Unit ignites but shuts down. Weather is real mild, call Glow-Core for sevice manual and have it sent next-day air. Following day return and get it running. Charge them for my work and leave. Following year, flame cylinder is full of crap, clean it, reinstall and check operation-OK. Bill them and recieve a check. The 3rd. year get another call, go to the house and am greeted by the Husband and Wife at the door. Wife says " We have paid you twice to fix this unit and we are fed up having to pay every year to get this boiler running, and we think you have been paid enough and we are not going to pay you again to get it running." I said "you are right, but you bought a piece of crap that is not worth my time. The people who installed could not get it running until I came 2 years ago. I'm leaving and please don't call me again, I do not need your business or grief. Life is too short. And I turned on my heels and left. A month later get a call from the husband, and he told me they had several other servicemen there and they could not even get it to run. And would I be interested in ripping it out and installing a WM boiler, but as a condition I would have to testify in court for them in a lawsuit aginst the original installer and the money to pay for the new boiler would have to come out of the settlement and could I wait that long." My reply "No thanks! and Have a nice day" and hung up on him...........

Ted_9

Jon, you my hero for the rest of the day.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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Christian Egli

Expensive lessons

Some people don't deserve to have steam heat. They don't deserve either to have people like you, MAD DOG and Jon to work for them.

Life is too good and too short for that sort of aggravation. Wouldn't it be so much nicer to pamper our own boiler on those days we take on dead-end jobs instead.

They say cash-flow is everything, but improving the value of your own property adds to the profit line just the same way net revenue does.

chris_24

thats why

I am no longer in the trades!

I took way too many beatings for way too long!

Chris

Constantin

Hear Hear!

The strength of a company can usually be measured by the number of potential customers it can choose to turn away. Some customers cannot be pleased and hence shouldn't become clients.

Boiler Guy

Everyone

of us has one (or more)!! Quoted a replacement residential boiler about 5 years ago. Was told I had the job. Rec'd the deposit in August. Ordered the material. Called to schedule boiler delivery 1 week later. That same day my Bank called. The cheque had been stopped 2 days after being written. I called the homeowner, only to be told their "friend" said I was ripping them off and they were going to have him and his "friend" install MY boiler since the delivery people had already been there. NOT!!!!

I raced to the home too retrieve MY boiler but they would not let me remove it. So, I Spoke to an attorney friend mine who advised me to let the police handle it. Of course there were denials all around and the police were shown a "bill" from their "friend" for the boiler. THe boiler was quickly butchered into the home. Of course you know the next step. I had both the HO and his friend charged with theft. Fast track through the court process.

When all was said and done, both were given the option of either paying for MY equipment and some costs, or a record, jail time and forfeiture of property obtained under false pretences. They chose to make restitution. I though I had won a small victory. NOT Of course it is now cold so the judge decided to let the HO make payments by post dated cheques, of which they only made 3 before the cheques bounced again. I sort of gave up on the courts.

The original story had received a very minor bit of media attention. Then in early Feb I received a call from an inspector to say the Gas Company had been called to repair the boiler I had SOLD this "customer", only to find it was incorrectly installed, no permit, etc, etc. I was advised MY licence was in jepordy due to the unsafe condition the job was left in, and I was RESPONSIBLE to make things right. The Gas service was immediately locked off.

As Dan says " You just can't make these things up!"

Well, to make an already long story end, it didn't take long to bring the necessary people up to speed and get my situation straightened out. The best part!: There had been a couple of articles in the recent additions of the daily paper about unscrupulous contractors preying on the elderly, so I called the paper to see if they were interested in my story. They were! I provided them with dates, times, pictures, names, court information, everything I could find on this family.

What I got was way beyond my wildest dreams. Fourteen colum inches plus pictures, detailing my Company's trials and tribulations, on page 2 of a newspaper with about 2Mil circulation - complete with ALL pertinent data. Even the Gas Co and enforcing authorities got to have their say! Of course the HO refused to be interviewed to answer the accusations. However, the HO had the nerve to call asking me to issue a retaction if he paid the rest of the monies owing and if I would correct the installation problems because no one wanted to become involved in this job. Hmmmmm, wonder why.
I did say I would "consider it" only after being paid in by cash. I did receive full payment, but just "could not find it in my heart" to invest any further time or effort in this matter.
You just cannot buy this kind of advertising!
Eventually the HO found someone to take on the thankless task of correcting the deficiencies to get heat, but not until his family was cold for a week.
To add insult to injury, the paper did a followup story a few weeks later, which provided additional advertising for both me and the other contractor. One of the questions: Yes, they did get paid too.
Due to all of the media attention from this situation, the family relocated from the "house of the infamous boiler" and the new owners retained us and continue to be one of my regular customers.
I apologize for the long post. Once in a while the contractor doesn't get completely beat out of their due.

Weezbo

I think this is the Year of Blessings....*~/:)

count em. Every day you get up , Thank God you aint me:))))

ScottMP

Great

LONG story.

Don't appologise, I loved it. Good for you.

Scott

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Constantin

Beautiful story!

As you pointed out, you really can't make this stuff up. On the other hand, it's nice to see that good karma eventually comes around eventually to bite the greedy, the nasty, and the ungrateful in the rear end.

Furthermore, I hope the gas company will be a bit wiser about accusing you of butchering stuff w/o a permit in the future. Despite all the aggravation, cost, etc. at least you got some free advertising out of it. I hope these sorts of people remain a once-in-a-lifetime event for you.

In the meantime, many thanks for sharing the story! I feel as though we should have a cookies and milk forum where we can all post stories of brushes with Kafkaesque absurdities... particularly ones with happy endings like yours.

jackchips_2

I don't usually read

these long posts but Scott and Constantin's words had me go back.

Excellent read and just a super story. Thanks for sharing.

Mad Dog

Thanks Bro

mad dog

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Mad Dog

Aint easy this busines

I m glad you finally prevailed...that is why when I know I am right...I NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!back off or stop fighting to reverse the situation. . Mad Dog

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jeff_51

weezbo

you are truly one of a kind

Weezbo

Jeff,out of over 6 billion people we coulda been

why on Earth did we chose to be who we are? look at all the other choises:)))every now and then i think Thank God i aint like the rest of these .....only to realize at a more rational momment hey i been that fornicated up my self every so often we get the chance to be at the bottom of the apple barrel,it aint real fun:(

EBEBRATT

I learned a long time ago that when you quote a job it is just as important to put in WRITING what you are NOT going to do as well as what you have included in your quote. This makes fewer misunderstandings. Yeah, you will lose some jobs doing it this way. The best way is to include what the job needs up front. But like all of us there is competition and you want to get the job. Protect yourself.

Example: a customer wants a quote on a new boiler because there having problems. You quote and install and the new boiler doesen't work well due to a leaky suction line from an underground tank. Your quote could be worded: Install boiler, connect electrical wiring, CONNECT TO EXISTING FUEL OIL PIPING ETC.

Mike Reavis_2

I \"fire\" customers like that

there is no way to get a person like that to value you and your profession. I almost have it down to a science as to sniffing them out. I must admit that two got by this week alone. They have since been "fired" forever.
Mike

A.J.

Thanks Bioler Guy

for sharing, before I started visiting The Wall I thought I was the only one with those type of customers.

Boiler Guy

Thanks

to everyone who can relate to the"experience". It does make a difference when you try to always do good work. The enforcing authorities get to know your capabilities and usually respect you for it. Unfortunately, had that same scenario occured today "trying to do good" probably would not cut it. This character would have gotten away with the his "stunt" because of a poor childhod or other such excuse accepted by the courts. The enforcing authority would most likely have pulled my licence and forced me to pay to get it back. Whatever happened to "taking resposibility for your own actions"???
Sorry about the rant. Just participated in a meeting Thursday evening about litigation, liability, insurance, court protection, lack of recourse for contractors to be paid for services provided, liens, labour laws, etc, etc. The information the legal team was providing to the group pretty much sickened all of us. And people wonder why some of us MIGHT have a bad attitude!!!!????? You gotta enjoy what you do -- it seems that little satisfaction is about all we're gonna have left soon.
EOR (End of Rant) [new accronym]
JM 2c