W-M won't light

Bryan_16

Installed a GV-6 Dec. 2000. Had trouble with ignition on start-up, boiler would fire on first try sometimes. Sometimes on second or third try. Sometimes it would fail completely and retry after 60 minutes. I had propane guys replace the second stage regulator and seemed to have solved the trouble until couple weeks ago. On Saturday(-23F) the HO called with no heat. I had them reset the boiler while I was on the phone. Tried to light 3 times and then shut-down. I couldn't get to them until late that night, called to tell them I was on the way and they told me that the house had gotten up to 75 and come Monday to check. I got there today and boiler was running. Everything looked normal so I shut it down and turned back on. Didn't light untill the third try. I pulled the burner and found few leaves in the cone and alot of rust in the HX. Put everything together and tried to restart. Went through all 3 attempts, no fire. I reset it and lit on the first try. Checked gas pressure incoming, found 9" under load, but when I shut the burner down the pressure climbed to 15.5 and stayed there. Had propane guy replace second stage reg again and checked pressures, 10" under load and 16.5 when shut-off. Light very unpredictably just like before. Any ideas?

Cheeze-Tech

Check the blower wheel

This may not be the issue with yours, but I have one several years back that had accumulated fuzz on the combustion blower wheel which screwed up the gas air mixture. It would let the gas in but would not lite at all. If we are thinking of the same boiler, have you checked the manifold pressure. It should be -.2 if memory serves me correct. A U-tube manometer works to check it. I had one actually running +.2. It had been that way from the factory for several years. I adjusted it (you have to get a little creative to get the cap off the gas valve) and it ran much smoother. Good Luck!

Cheeze-Tech

Check the blower wheel.

This may not be the issue with yours, but I had one several years back that had accumulated fuzz on the combustion blower wheel which screwed up the gas air mixture. It would let the gas in but would not lite at all. If we are thinking of the same boiler, have you checked the manifold pressure. It should be -.2 if memory serves me correct. A U-tube manometer works to check it. I had one actually running +.2. It had been that way from the factory for several years. I adjusted it (you have to get a little creative to get the cap off the gas valve) and it ran much smoother. Good Luck!

Empire_2

Propane

I think that you might back down on your incomming gas pressure. If I remember correctly, The max is around 14"w.c.. Look on the boiler tag for this info. I am not saying that this is the prob., but lets get the pressure where it should be.

Bryan_16

yes

I check the outlet, it was -.1. I set it to -.2. How do I get to the blower wheel? Seems that they are not supposed to be disassembled.

Bryan_16

set at

12" when I turn the gas on slowly. But jumps way up when the burner shuts down. Is it possible the new reg is bad? Always thought they were only supposed to allow so much pressure and then vent any excess? Not a regulator expert tho!

Dale

Piping

If it isn't cold weather related it sounds like too small house piping coming to the boiler. I would take gauge readings back to the second stage regulator to check. LP loses pressure in real cold weather and the correct size piping in the house is critical.

Unknown

drop the blower and look at the hole

Bryan,

There is a plate installed on the inlet that is used to concert your system to LP gas. Drop the housing at that point and look for foreign objects.

I had the same intermittent lock out caused by a spider egg sack occasionally flipping up and covering the hole causing the lock out. Same simptoms as you are having. DROVE ME NUTS!

(the leaves in your inltet tell me this is high probablility)

Steve

Rely_2

Propane

I agree with Dale either the house gas piping is under sized or the the tank is a bad location propane will stop boiling off at -44 degrees but if the tank is in the shade it maybe having a hard time boiling off the amount required by the boiler hence the starting wc of 16.5 and a run of 9" of wc.If the boiler is close to the incoming line and the house gas pipe is suspect try connecting an extra line to the boiler with gas tite or ward flex and see if this resolves the pressure drop issue

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Dale

One more thought

At the outdoor temp you're at the first stage regulator must not be set too high or you will get liquid in the line from the tank to the 2nd stage, check the first stage, I think it should be 10# or a bit less. The LP co will know but sometimes the pressure doesn't get checked.

Cheeze-Tech

Blower

If I remember right, there are screws all around the perimeter of the blower. Take them out and then the top and bottom are cauked together. I don't know that it is intended to be pulled apart but sometimes you got to do what you got to do. Good luck!

Unknown

Your pressure out of the

second stage regulator should be 10" W.C. to 11" W.C. your regulator could be locking up due to excess pressure. The Weil McLain boiler requires a 100% lockup gas pressure regulator. Pressure is not to exceed 13" W.C. Possibly moisture, make sure the LP gas folks have methanol in the propane tank.

No regulators do not vent excess pressure they just shut down when lockup pressure is reached.

Andy Morgan_2

GV

I have had similar problems, if the cone is clear, put an amp meter on the blower motor, anything under 2 amps, change the motor. (According to the WM tech guy). A change in rpms on the motor effects the fuel mixture.

Andy Morgan

R. Morgan Mechanical, LLC

Bryan_16

Thank you

for all the help and ideas. Some have already been tried. I did get a hold of the W-M tech support yesterday, between what they suggested and what has been suggested here maybe I'll get this figured out. I checked the boiler yesterday and it fired on the first attempt 20 times in a row! I hate intermittent problems!!!!

Bryan_16

still no luck

I reached the tech support guys at W-M and went through all their suggestions. Nothing helps. Tried all the suggestions from you guys. Nothing. Now what? W-M tech guy says he is out of ideas, I'm out of ideas, local distributor is out of ideas. Replace the thing? HO will scream at that idea, I'll eat the whole bill, then I'll scream. I see a trip down the Hershey Highway coming!

Unknown

Bryan you say it trys to light

does the igniter get power? Does it go thru warm up? Is the valve getting 24 volts for 6seconds at the end of 20 second igniter warm up? The flame has to prove in 4 seconds it then will retry twice then lockout. Is this happening? Is it failing after ignition? What are the indicator lights on the control module showing? Have you gone throgh the troubleshooting charts for the control module? If so what did it show? If you can answer some of these questions I can perhaps help you through this. Those lights on the control module should be indicating some kind of failure. Have you run the test ignition system procedure? If you are in lockout the POWER AND FLAME lights should be flashing are they?

Cheeze-Tech

One last thing

You might try replacing the control board. I had one that was probably around that age. I would not always stay lit. Seems like it was intermittant. Almost seemed like a flame sensing problem, but I had just replaced the HSI. I think the tech guys at w-m had me add an isolating relay to isolate the 3 zone valves from the board (thought they might be drawing to much amps/dropping voltage. It didn't work so as a last resort I replaced the board. The boiler has worked fine for almost a year (I'll scream if they call me tomorrow).

Good Luck! If that doesn't work try reposting the details. Maybe there is something we are missing. Gotta love this high-tech stuff (when it works)!

Cheeze-Tech

One last thing

You might try replacing the control board. I had one that was probably around that age. I would not always stay lit. Seems like it was intermittant. Almost seemed like a flame sensing problem, but I had just replaced the HSI (have you done that?). I think the tech guys at w-m had me add an isolating relay to isolate the 3 zone valves from the board (thought they might be drawing to much amps/dropping voltage. It didn't work so as a last resort I replaced the board. The boiler has worked fine for almost a year (I'll scream if they call me tomorrow).

Good Luck! If that doesn't work try reposting the details. Maybe there is something we are missing. Gotta love this high-tech stuff (when it works)!

Cheeze-Tech

One last thing

You might try replacing the control board. I had one that was probably around that age. It would not always stay lit. Sometimes it 2 or 3 times before it would keep running. Seems like it was intermittant. Almost seemed like a flame sensing problem, but I had just replaced the HSI (have you done that?). I think the tech guys at w-m had me add an isolating relay to isolate the 3 zone valves from the board (thought they might be drawing to much amps/dropping voltage. It didn't work so as a last resort I replaced the board. The boiler has worked fine for almost a year (I'll scream if they call me tomorrow).

Good Luck! If that doesn't work try reposting the details. Maybe there is something we are missing. Gotta love this high-tech stuff (when it works)!

Cheeze-Tech

One last thing

You might try replacing the control board. I had one that was probably around that age. It would not always stay lit. Sometimes it took 2 or 3 times before it would keep running. Seems like it was intermittant. Almost seemed like a flame sensing problem, but I had just replaced the HSI (have you done that?). I think the tech guys at w-m had me add an isolating relay to isolate the 3 zone valves from the board (thought they might be drawing to much amps/dropping voltage. It didn't work so as a last resort I replaced the board. The boiler has worked fine for almost a year (I'll scream if they call me tomorrow).

Good Luck! If that doesn't work try reposting the details. Maybe there is something we are missing. Gotta love this high-tech stuff (when it works)!

Cheeze-Tech

One last thing

You might try replacing the control board. I had one that was probably around that age. It would not always stay lit. Sometimes it took 2 or 3 times before it would keep running. Seems like it was intermittant. Almost seemed like a flame sensing problem, but I had just replaced the HSI (have you done that?). I think the tech guys at w-m had me add an isolating relay to isolate the 3 zone valves from the board (thought they might be drawing to much amps/dropping voltage). It didn't work so as a last resort I replaced the board. The boiler has worked fine for almost a year (I'll scream if they call me tomorrow).

Good Luck! If that doesn't work try reposting the details. Maybe there is something we are missing. Gotta love this high-tech stuff (when it works)!

joe_31

gv boiler

we had one drive us crazy. three tries then lock out. new board, circulator[?] ignitor, bad t/stat wire sat on it gas valve would get 24v time out/ reset/ wacked gas valve[oil burner adjustment tool]fired up checked neg pressure pulled over 2" wc valve opened again pressure did not pull pos. new gas valve and rewire into older system started first time every time per cust. [he recordes "swish of gas"] 2 weeks now no lockouts, always starts first time hope this helps [do you think "it" heard me?]
'



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Bryan_16

did that

replaced ignitor. It's not that the boiler lights and goes out, it simply won't ignite.

Bryan_16

what happens

is it goes thru all the steps, warm-up, power to gas valve, no ignition, three tries lockout. Power light stays on and valve light flashes. 1 hour later goes through cycle again.

Bryan_16

new valve

might be the solution, pressure at start-up might be part of my trouble.

Bryan_16

.

.

steve gates

I know it don't sound right but, had one similar to this some months ago. Say's I to the tecline "could it be the air switch". "nope" It was. I finally saw a flicker of red while watching it go tru it"s cycle, just a flicker. The book says it was in the gas train somewhere. I replaced everything, that darn flicker.

Unknown

Bryan, put a \"U\" guage

on the inlet and outlet and a meter to check 24 volts at the valve. You have replaced the igniter which is what the book calls for with FLAME/POWER light flashing.

Next the book says if it continues to replace the gas valve.

I would also have a control module sitting by just in case. I tell everyone with electronics when a ALL ELSE FAILS - REPLACE THE ELECTRONICS. Sometimes you just cannot put your finger on it but when I have typically frustrated all avenues I change the electronics (module) and amazingly it works - just cannot always figure these things.

Bryan_16

what

am I looking for? I know there is, or always has been, 24 volts to the gas valve. I haven't done the gas inlet/outlet at the same time, what will it tell me? Thanks for all the help.

Unknown

Bryan, it will

show you any pressure drop at the time of firing and at the same time monitor the 24 volts to insure the valve is still powered. If you have 24 volts and pressure at the inlet and nothing at the outlet then either the valve is not opening or the combustion air blower may not be pulling enough pressure to cause the valve to create the proper gas air mix.

Have you pulled the entire burner assembly and cleaned and resealed it?

If you get a chance lets talk on the phone about this. Give me a call at 401-437-0557.

Mike Reavis_2

Whoa- Rust in the heat exchanger.

does your piping comply with the install manual? If it does not, you probably have a clogged boiler (fire-side) If this is a GV-series 2, you may be/probably are condensing in the casting. A GV series3/4 will shut down if it stays "cold" in the casting for an extended period. The GV series 2 was discontinued in July of 1999. There is an extensive troubleshooting sticker on the top of the GV, and also in the manual. Find out if you are getting the correct pressures across the heat exchanger. The casting can be taken apart and cleaned, but you would only do that at your own house.
Mike