Steam is perfect during sub zero weather-why not other times?

Drod

It's sub zero in the Chicago suburbs and my single pipe steam system is keeping every room comfortably warm. As much as I love my steam heat, and as much as I've become "addicted" to keeping it at its peak performance(thanks mostly to this site, Dan's books, and a local expert; I have to admit, it's only during these very cold days that I'm 100% satisfied with how it works/heats my house. During spring and fall and mild winter times, I'd give it about a 70% grade-it doesn't keep all rooms comfortably warm on an ongoing basis. I believe everything is working just fine. This is a problem I never had with "scorched heat". Any comments or suggestions?

Fred Harwood

Satisfaction

Sounds a bit like slow main venting, and fixed rad vents. Have you tried Gorton #1s on the main? And do you have adjustable vents on the rads? Also, how do you control run time? With good venting, you should be able to get all rads to heat on each cycle, at any time of year.

Drod

venting

I don't think venting of mains is the issue-I've got three Gorton #1's on each main. I do however, have fixed (Gortons) vents on all but one of my radiators. I've sized the Gortons based on their recommendations regarding location of radiator and also if room seemed to heat slowly. Maybe I should do something differently?

Regarding run time: I've got one of the newer, programmable Honeywells. Originally I had it the cycle set at "1", but was unhappy-it had big temp. swings. Based on advice here, I changed the setting to the next number (3 or 4, cannot recall here), and it works fine. I should mention that the system builds almost no pressure and never cycles off on the pressuretrol, UNLESS it's subzero weather like now. In very cold weather, they system will cycle off and on a bit on pressure. Even on the coldest days, my running time is usually between 6-10 hours per 24 hours.

bovide_4

what kind of fuel to your boiler?

Dave Meers

t-stat setting

> I don't think venting of mains is the issue-I've

> got three Gorton #1's on each main. I do

> however, have fixed (Gortons) vents on all but

> one of my radiators. I've sized the Gortons

> based on their recommendations regarding location

> of radiator and also if room seemed to heat

> slowly. Maybe I should do something

> differently?

>

> Regarding run time: I've got one

> of the newer, programmable Honeywells.

> Originally I had it the cycle set at "1", but was

> unhappy-it had big temp. swings. Based on advice

> here, I changed the setting to the next number (3

> or 4, cannot recall here), and it works fine. I

> should mention that the system builds almost no

> pressure and never cycles off on the

> pressuretrol, UNLESS it's subzero weather like

> now. In very cold weather, they system will

> cycle off and on a bit on pressure. Even on the

> coldest days, my running time is usually between

> 6-10 hours per 24 hours.

Dave Meers

t-stat setting

Hi DRod,

Fred may be onto something here. It sounds like the venting is in good shape. However, I have seen that the t-stat setting can effect performance, efficiency and comfort. Just recently I was with an oldtimer that really changed the way a system operated by adjusting the heat anticipator setting on a Honeywell t87f. This nice old lady was having fits with her system, I was focused on some piping changes that a previous contractor had made. Through her church, she found a retired service manager of a large residential contractor. I've known this guy for years and learned something new I think everytime we meet on a job. He adjusted the t-stat to the amp draw of the gas valve, and the system heats better than ever. He doesn't like the programmable stats on steam systems. He would suggest running the steam heat on a t87f with the amp draw measured and the anticipator set for it. Use the new stats for A/C, but the old stats for steam. Or try other settings on your programmable until you find one that you like.

Best regards, Pat

Drod

stat

> what kind of fuel to your boiler?



It's natural gas.

Drod

stat

It's natural gas.

Lurker_2

re

could it be as simple as the placement of the thermostat or the response of the radiator in that room?

IE the radiator closest to the thermostat reacts more quickly than the other radiators so on shorter cycles the thermostat is satisfied before the other rooms warm up, but on longer cycles it makes no difference?

jus an amateur

Mad Dog

Exactly Pat

One of the first culprits of a quirky steam system I look for is a programmable t-stat. I like a T-87 ...usually on the longest anticipator setting. Simplicity and the steam usually uncomplicate things. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Drod

thermostat placementf

I've thought of that possibility too, and the radiator in the room with the thermostat is virtually turned off. It's in the main level dining room. Maybe the radiators in the adjacent first floor rooms which also heat the area should be "turned down" even more than they are currently.

Just to clarify, it's the upstairs rooms that heat last if at all during moderate weather, particularly those farthest from the boiler. I've put the biggest, fastest venting Gortons in those rooms. During these coldest days, everything works great-it's the milder times that are the issue.

Thanks.

Fred Harwood

Load matching

Have you calculated your EDR and compared it with the boiler's?

Boilerpro_3

Sizing rad vents

I believe most here will agree that Gortons recommendation to size rad vents according to location is a bad idea. The vents need to be sized according to the air volume of the radiator and the heat load of the room, if your main venting is good. It gets tricky when you have several different types of radiators in one system....large volume old column type, medium volume small tube from the 30's to 50's and the modern thin tubes from the 50;'s to today.

You may want to look at adjustable vents such as the Armstrong(they look just like the Gortons, but have 5 sizes of screw in orifices), or the infinitely adjustable Hofmann's or other brands. Another really nice option would be to install Thermostatic vents. Then you can keep each room at whatever temperature you want.

Boilerpro
....Former southsider and deep freezed just like you are west of Chicago.

Drod

EDR

Fred,
I haven't done that. It's getting beyond my area of knowledge. My boiler is not the original, but rather a smaller (in size of boiler) W/M that's probably about 25 years old. Since it works well in most ways, I really wouldn't want to change it.
Thanks,
Dale

Drod

Thermostatic Vents

Thermostatic Vents sound interesting. I thought I read somehwere here, though, that they're not recommended for single pipe steam-maybe I'm wrong, maybe it was TRV's I remember and not vents. Would these be the wired type? Can you describe them for me? Would you reccomend a pro do the installation?
My thanks.

Damian_2

boiler pro

where one the south side? that's where I'm at. Maybe you worked on it once upon time. :-) I put another posting about "Anyone know what kind of sysitem I have". Check that our and maybe you can help me figure out how I can keep the thing going when it really gets cold.

Thanks

Boilerpro_3

Thermostatic Vents

They are just like TRV's except they install at the air vent on one pipe steam heaters. When the room reaches the temperature setting, the vent closes, slowing the rate that steam enters the radiator because it prevents more air from getting out of the radiator. When the boiler shuts off and the pressure in the system drops, air is brought in through a vacumn breaker and the radiator fills with air. Then when the boiler fires up the next cycle, the steam can't get in because the air can't get past the closed vent.
This is how I understand they work. Take a look at the Danfoss Website... you can see some there. Installation is a matter of spinning off the old vent and installing the valve and new vent.

Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

Way south

Started in Roseland, and then moved to Beverly. I wasn't doing steam work when I was in Chicago, that started after I moved out here to nowhere. I'll try to find your post. I have some other work to look at in Chicago, hopefully in a few weeks, the owner has been quite patient. I'm still working on the calls that came in in October and trying to wrap up some new homes that were supposed to be done in August, but weren't even in teh ground yet. It's been a crazy year.

Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

Couldn't find the post

If you add a response it come back to the top.

Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

Found it!