should i keep my existing system? (please Help)

Mark_44

Here is my problem I have a steam boiler. I am debating if i want to convert it to hot water. I have a 3 family house and the reason i would convert it is so that each unit can control thier own heat. upon seeing the output stats from steam and hotwater. i want to stay with steam. but if i do so i cannot separate them. I am also thinking that in the long run it may not be worth it because after the whole conversion i would probably spend 20k+ for it. i could use that money for years of heating. does anyone recommend a very good efficient gas steam boiler?

Boilerpro_3

Separate controls

Each radiator can be equipped with a thermostatic radiator valve to control the heat for each room. this would be a much better solution, probably, than trying to zone the system or converting.

Boilerpro

jalcoplumb_2

How is....

the existing system heating? Does it heat well? Do the radiators bang? Is the system gas or oil? Is it one pipe or two pipe? Can the Radiators be use for hot water? How long are you planning to own the building? Will you put a heater in every unit and let them pay for gas?

You can put TRV's on each radiator and hook up a Heat-Timer which will cycle the boiler based on the outside temp. to provide steam. The TRV's will regulate the amount of steam.

A steam boiler limits out at around 82.2% AFUE. You Can get a modulating gas hot water boiler that will be around 92% AFUE. I have converted many systems using PEX tubing and manifolds tied to a Munchkin boiler and had great comfort and fuel savings.

Joe Landree
JAL Co.
Allentown, NJ

Steamhead

I wouldn't convert it

especially if you have a relatively new boiler. We hear of all kinds of possible savings, but converting is much more expensive and there are many things that can go wrong. There's a good article in hot Tech Topics that discusses this.

If a steam system and a hot-water system are sized the same, have similar boilers and distribute the heat well, they're pretty close in efficiency and comfort. Also, steam pipes and radiators (except wet returns in the basement) drain dry when the system is off. This vastly reduces the possibility of freezing if the power fails or the boiler stops working.

I'd use thermostatic radiator vents in the tenants' areas, a Vaporstat to control the pressure, and a more-efficient steam boiler if needed. Include the heat in the rent.

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Mark_44

well i have a 3 family house and would like for them to control thier own heating

Mark_44

the existing system is heating but rather unevenly. I insulated all the pipes in the basement which actually helped alot. some rooms heat well while others do not. The radiator do not bang at all. The system is gas heat and I received my first gas bill of the winter and it was about 700 for 2 months. it is a one pipe system. I had a heating company which was posted on here come to take a look at my system. They said that the boiler is not fuel efficent and the water return was not piped correctly. They recommended that i can go 2 ways (1- replace the boiler and they will redo the return pipe) (2- we can get 3 smaller water heat systems and they can use the existing radiators and convert them to hot water). I am actually planning on owning this building for a very long time it is a good investment property and has alot of the original details to the house. If you are a contractor i live in brooklyn ny if you would like you can e-mail me your contact info i am still pricing it out and seeing what i should expect.
Mazeem@nyc.rr.com

Mark_44

the boiler from what i hear is really old. I am hestitant on converting over but i will be honest with you. I do not think that i can handle paying 700 for heat every 2 months. I don't think that i could raise the rent on my tentants without possibly driving them away. I would love to keep the existing steam system and just replace the boiler to a fuel effient one. but if i do and my bill is not reduced by much then I am down some money and no savings on the bills

jalcoplumb_2

I would go with ...

the three. Install a gas meter for each unit and let the tenants pay for the gas. In the long run you should recoup the cost. You will save $700.00 every two months by not having to pay for the gas anymore

Mark_44

3 unit

from what i gather i will have to convert it to a water based system. do you know what i would be looking at in regards to price. and i got a fax from the heating company they gave me 3 different models of hot water boilers. to be honest with you i could not really tell any apart. is there one that you know that is very good for price and effiency

Steamhead

Another way to do this

would be to split the steam mains and returns in the basement, and use 3 small steam boilers. This would eliminate having to run a lot of new piping thru the living areas of the house, which would be less disruptive.

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Mark_44

that sounds like a better plan. but the only problem i have is that there are risers that come up from the basement and continue up to the 3 floor and on the second floor it branches out to the radiators. how could someone isolate them. for example if the tenants on the 3rd floor turn on the heat it would also heat up the second floor and the first. which could cause their gas bill to go up. I am sorry if i am not making too much sense, i am a first time home owner. never really had to deal with something like this

Steamhead

You'd have to split those risers

but that would still be much less piping than a hot-water conversion. Just run new 3rd floor risers up to the second floor and tie them in there.

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jalcoplumb_2

I would run ...

1/2" pex feed and return from each radiator to a radiant manifold at the boiler. That is if the radiators can be used for hot water. Less piping than splitting the steam system.

jalcoplumb_2

The only problem you

might have is finding a boiler small enough.

Mark_44

well the heating company that came over said i had more than enough room to put the 3 small boilers and hot water tanks for them in the area where i have my bolier now. do you have any suggestions on what type of hot water boiler i should get and the price on it