water parts at night

paul sr

when im on call my mind races. i had a vision last night around 2 am. ive only been in the trade 4yrs or so. i dont want to get to ballsy before i get some input on this contraption i made up.

im figuring it will allow me to plug a leaking relief valve, keep the system under pressure if the feeders bad, and i can see whats going on through the t&p gauge (pressure anyways).

i also am assuming i can hook it to a tankless drawoff, or a water heater drawoff, or if i had to i could hook it up to the washing machine water supply.

i put the backflow on so there is no risk of contamination to the domestic water.

the 1/2 inch plug would allow an expansion tank if needed.

do you think this would be ok?, i mean in a pinch in the middle of the night? my boss doesnt pay us alot for calls, and its the same money for any call. so time is money. he thinks patches and return trips in the am are acceptable.

thanks, paul

Mark Eatherton1

Looks good but...

and there's ALWAYS a but somewhere in the crowd...

I'd suggest you add a pressure relief valve to the mix. By plugging off the custoemrs existing pressure relief valve, you just bought the bag of liability. If there is some other intermittent problem, i.e. sticking gas valve or sticking relay (seen both), then you DON'T want an unprotected vessel, or you could return in the AM to a hole in the ground...

I do like your thinking tho... Keep it up!

ME

hr

Usually

when you plug a relief valve they leak around the stem. Little if any o ring seal around that small stem. I doubt you could shove water backwards through them without some additional leaking around the stem.

Why not remove the bad relief and fix it right? Seems like less parts, $$s and hassle than adding your rig and returning the next day? A lot safer also

hot rod

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paul sr

thanks for your feedback mark. the relief valve is to the right of the feeder. its a web-cam pic so its fuzzy and the lighting is kinda poor.

paul sr

i have to keep repairs to a minimum at night i cover alot of area. i get paid by the call. between the pinch for time on very cold nights, and the crap money i make per call,if i go to change the relief valve, and i take the pressure off the boiler, change the valve, go to fill( oopps, the feeders bad, change that( or fill via house pressure, which gets me a ticket back in the am anyways)now i fill and the boiler drain wont stop leaking ( out to the truck for a boiler drain or a hose cap). now all that took an hour, plus the 45 min ride there, and the 30 min to the next call or 45 min home. i get paid by the call. this took about two hours start to finish.( i make more $ during the day, why am i out freezing my butt off for peanuts?

long story short, this is the way my company has been for 50 yrs (oil only)if i dont hustle i dont make a penny

hot rod, i would plug the relief valve and hook up that contraption to the boiler drain, 5 gal bucket would hold the little bit of water seeping through the relief for a few hrs till i got back there ( i got to make some money for my time).

paul sr

hr

I admire

your creativity

Sounds like your boss, or the company you work for, is the problem

Don't allow them to force you to do dangerous things to save a few bucks. A leak is one thing, plugging a safety relief is another! Probably wouldn't go over well in a courtroom regardless of the intent.

I'd rather see a new relief screwed into the old one if I were to "jury rig" to buy time. At least you have some protection, if in fact the relief is the problem?

Be careful is all I caution

hot rod

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paul sr

hotrod

thank you for your positive comments and your concern. i really like the idea to stop the dripping relief by adding another one onto it. that, and keeping the one on my contraption for added safety. im trying to make safe rigs to get through the night and am very conscious of the liabilitys and customer safety, thats why i seek the feedback of the top hydronics men in the industry before i go trying these things. thanks again

paulsr

hr

In my experience

it's rare to find a pressure relief valve that starts leaking without an overpressure "cause."

In fact I find a lot more relief valves, both boiler and WH, that have "glued" themselves shut from inactivity. I actually broken the handles off old T&P valves trying to test them for home inspections, etc.

My theory is if you plan on touching an old relief valve, plan on having a replacement in your pocket.

Keep a lazy hand gauge in your toolkit to determine if you have a bad fill valve the slowly raises the pressure. Get one with a female hose connection to screw onto the boiler drain.

Take a note of the brand and style of fill valve to assure an easy replacement the next day.

Fill valve and relief valve failures usually go hand in hand. Always look to Mr Expansion tank for clues also

This gauge, pictured, is the one I use to determine the cause of water heater relief valve failures, or seeping. Gauge manufactures will add the "lazy hand" to any pressure range gauge. Get a 30 lb for boiler relief testing.

hot rod

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Mark Eatherton1

Roger that... (NM)

Keep your powder dry and your flint warm.

ME

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Glenn Harrison_2

Two thoughts

1. Use braided washing machine hoses for extra protection of the hose.

2. Make sure you change the hoses at least once a year to prevent flooding a customers house from a burst hose.

Otherwise, thats a great little set-up. To bad your bosses law breaking (I think)pay system caused you to have to make it.

paul sr

glen

i will get 2 braided hoses, and will maintain them. im all about safety and keeping the liabilitys down. but i gotta make some money damnit! its not worth going out in the middle of the night for the same money i make during the day. thanks for your response and suggestions. i appreciate any ideas/constructive critisism.

thanks paulsr

clammy

oil nite service

I also do oil nite service and yes you loose on travel time but i always make it up i would never think of adding some contraption like that seems like it's more work then it is to fix it .I personally would just do what needs to be done going back to do r3epairs that should and could have bheen done at nite usally piss me off if your there just do it .New years eve got my first packed boiler i didn't want to clean it 2 hours later it was done including pull the burner apart clean the fan blades and inside of the burner housing smoke piupe ect i could have punched it done down firewd it and went on my way and return anotjer day to clean and double bill the ho .In my opion some times it harded to get out of work then it is to do the work and ps we have only about 1500 to 1800 custermers with only 1 full time service guy me and i do the work at nite and i usually do it so i don,t have to come back don,t have others to do my dirty work it,s either now or never peace clammy

paul sr

clammy

i respect your opinion clammy, but like i said, when im on call its me and 6000 burners/boilers. its nothing to do 10 -20 calls on a cold night. that rig sits in the back of my truck all assembled i hook up too hoses and im outta there.ive ran into nightmares on the water end at night, and while i was fixing them the customer is breathing down my back, the nextel is going off, and im behind 5 calls already. its gotta be like that at my co, boss dont want to pay.and if im doing night call for 20 bucks an hour, i might as well lose the stress and go work at home depot. paulsr.

Maine doug

The title of this thread

had me seeing a tech, in a nice new uniform, using a garden watering can. He was sprinkling the growing plumbing and heating parts in the stockroom. A tree with little 007's hanging on the branches, steam vents on their sides as big as squash....
A nightmare??

clammy

not busting chops

Sorry if it seems i was busting your chops i wasn,t and i hope i didn,t offend you i know what it is like it's just in the past and more recently i've seen alot of slackerness in service areas and i've been the one to straighten things out weather it's nite or day the boss respects what i do and knows i leave no job or call half **** i can't help it and he pays me quite well more then most i know at least .And i know the stress of all nite all day service any thing that makes it so you get through the calls peace and good luck plus who am i probaly the guy who will be making up one of your rigs next week at 1 in the morning in the back of the van peace and good luck clammy

paul sr

clammy

no offense taken clammy, i posted it to get any and all opinions i can. i take constructive critism like a man and learn from it. im all about doing it right, trust me. i also go on plenty of repeat calls from other techs. i take pride in being a mechanic and not just another parts changer. most importantly, i care about customer safety and liability. i also spend a ton of my spare time learning about my trade. paulsr.

Firedragon_4

gawd, someone with a brain,

and trust me if it came to a lawsuit this rig would sure look like 'a reasonable professional attempt' had been made to prevent a house from freezing.

As a former permanent nightman I applaud paulsr's idea, well done!

I wish every tech in this business had to work one whole YEAR of nights, it would change your attitude, even more so how about all you owners and managers stepping up to the plate and just trying it for a month, yeah right! You'd probably be true to form and create more problems :-)

Trust me, if some bosses would try a week of nights you'd see the attitude of the whole industry change and maybe we could get some young talent and keep them and the ole timers from leaving.
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