Should I replace my 50yr. old boiler

Jason laurelton

I have a old converted oil to gas boiler(american gordon) boiler. The boiler i was told is 50+ years old. It works but my question is should I replace i wait until it dies ?

Thad English

many opinions

There are many opinions on this subject so I'll give you but one: yes, replace it, for a number of reasons.


1. The faster you replace that ponderous bulk with a new high-efficiency boiler, the faster you start reducing your heating costs.


2. Is there a convenient time for that old boiler to give up the ghost and leave you with no heat? What if it happens while you are taking that winter vacation to Florida and you come back to burst/frozen pipes? or if it is a hot water sytem, burst/frozen radiators? Those kinds of replacements are very expensive.

3. You have the time to select a knowledgeable professional and not the guy who is available since it is an emergency. And you can schedule the work so that it impacts the rest of your life minimally.

Some would say, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I say, make sure it doesn't break in the first place.

Just my $.02.

Good luck,

Thad

Joe Brix

yes, but

why not wait till the spring/summer when the wetheads are not as busy and you can shop around better.

Einsiedler_2

agreed

I agree.
It is time to replace it. But wait until seasonal change so you have the pick of the crop for an installer rather than who ever can squeeze you in.

EIN

Plumbob

Change it, but not for some cheap junk. If you can't afford something better, wait until you can. Read this board to learn about what is better.

Jason laurelton

Type of boiler offered

Keyspan has offered me to change it for a GCA-4 Weil-Maclean is that good boiler ?

Plumbob

No such boiler. If you mean a CGa-4, it is a basic cast-iron boiler for quick-and-dirty swapout jobs; essentially the same technology as your old one, but not as solidly made, so it won't last anywhere close to 50 years. Why not wait until you know more and have more money and can buy a boiler that incorporates modern technology?

PS Even if you buy that boiler, I will bet you don't need the -4 size. Swapout artists invariably oversize boilers by factors of 2 or more.

Jason laurelton

Which boiler or type do you recommend ?

I have hot water heat with 1 zone currently. I live in NYC, would like to change the 50yr old boiler I have now with something that uses modern technology. Would like to also add a zone for the basement since there is no radiator down there. Keyspan said they will install the Weil-Mclein CGA-4 plus baseboard heat for the basement with thermostat for 7100 dollars. Is this reasonable and which boiler should I choose ?

Thad English

$$$

Most of the pros on this site will not discuss price. That being taken out of the equation, you should do some research and learn the basics of hydronic heat. That way when you start getting bids from companies other than Keyspan, you will know if they are going to do it right the first time.
With hot water heat, a good pro will do a heat loss calc on your house to determine the correct size of boiler needed for the job, not just swap out what is already there. Use the find a pro link on this site and get a good guy out there.

The other posts that say to wait until spring and summer to do this are spot on. You get a much wider selection of pros to do the work. And in the meantime you can read up and come to understand hydronics a little better.

-Thad

Plumbob

You will have to do your own reading. Unfortunately, hydronic heat does not lend itself to one-size-fits-all answers.

Among things you should learn about are

(a) heat loss calculations

(b) condensing boilers

(c) outdoor reset and constant circulation

(d) various venting methods

(e) pumping away

TomStayer

Jason's boiler

Jason,
As was posted earlier, there are more eff and better boilers available in todays market. Take a look at the MZ boiler on www.MZboiler.com for testimonials.
Have your old boiler changed out in the Spring, but start shopping now. If you use the MZ, you can tie it into your water heater and save energy on hot water usage as well.

I will be more than glad to help you with this. Send me an email.

Tom

Chandler

I have found that the sound levels of the CGa are quite loud, go with the gold!

Joe Brix

Be wary of Keyspan

They don't do installs, only take a cut from a list of plumbers they refer you to. I'm sure a lot of extra cost items will appear when the contractor gets there. Do you realy think the gas company has your best interests in mind to save energy and less revenue for them, I don't think so.

jackchips_2

If you decide

to follow the advice given so far Jason, do yourself a favor, go to books and more and buy Pumping Away.

Steamhead

Jason, you need to talk to a real heating pro

not one of Keyspan's salesmen. From knowing him personally, I'd recommend Matt "Mad Dog" Sweeney, owner of Triple Crown P&H- he's located in Floral Park, Long Island. I'm sure there are many other good Wetheads in the NYC area, and you'll find a lot of them right here on the Wall. But I know MD and can tell you he will do the job right.

Go to the Find a Professional page of this site and follow the directions to see his contact info.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Robert O'Connor_7

Chandler..

I think you mean the CGi. The CGa's are atmospheric and quiet as a mouse, the CGi however has the fan,,WWWWWWOOOOOOSSSHHHH......it is loud..Robert O'Connor/NJ

Constantin

From a fellow homeowner...

Jason,
I would be very wary of any deals with the gas company. As the pro's recommend, start doing your homework now and prepare for a spring swap-out. That way you can get the best system at a reasonable price. Moreover, you will have your choice of contractors, which always is a good thing.

I would start with a heat loss calculation. Any genuine contractor (as opposed to hack) will do one as a matter of course. Or, you can download the free slant-fin heat explorer (see toolbar at left) and do it yourself. My heatloss calculation (HVAC-Calc) came very close to that of my contractor (who used Wright-soft). In any case, the heat loss should be based on Manual-J and have itemized rooms, etc.

Also think about insulation and weatherization. It is amazing how well an investment in good storm windows (Harvey Tru-channel) can reduce infiltration and increase comfort. Insulation can also be blown into the walls without taking them down. Look for dense-pack cellulose or Icynene foam.

Once the house is tight and the heat loss/gain is low, then think about your boiler options. You apparently are using natural gas as a fuel source (which makes a lot of sense in an urban environment). If you are committed to a swap-out, I would go with a modulating, condensing boiler, unless you have steam heat. Such boilers have saved homeowners between 25-40% on their fuel bills. Examples include the HTP Munchkin, NTI Trinity, Weil-Mc Ultra, and the Viessmann Vitodens.

While the Vitodens is probably the most sophisticated/engineered condensing, modulating boiler on the market, it is also priced 30% higher than a comparably-sized Munchkin. Exchange rate swings are only going to put even more pricing pressure on them. However, the other boilers I mentioned have also been installed with great results.

Lastly, the quality of the install is what makes all the difference in the end. Find a professional that has experience installing these units and how to properly pipe and control the pipes and emitters they're attached to. As one pro put it, 99% of longevity issues have to do with improper installs. After that, it's a matter of annual maintenance by a professional that knows what he's doing and what to look for.

It's a daunting laundry list, I know. But I guarantee that if you are an informed consumer that you'll do much better than the Weil system that the gas company is trying to foist on you.

samsparks

Boiler

I have a Weil- Mclain Co. Furnace model n.o. P-E-5 Natural Gas Btu Rating input 128000 Output 102400 Serial No. 308397 How can I tell how old the furnace Is?

JJ_4

E-mail the boiler company....

I did this with my old Smith and they got right back to me with the date....