Electric Baseboard Vs. Hydronic Baseboard

Alan_6

Electric baseboard probably cost 3 times as much to operate.

Jammer_2

Electric Baseboard vs. Hydronic Baseboard Heat

How do they compare? In terms of efficiency/energy costs is there a difference?

wlad schweigert

boiler replacement

Hi,

My house was built in 1948 and still has the old boiler with convection system. Good boiler but very inefficient. Heat is lost through the flu/chimney. I want to replace it with a modern one. The energy suply is natural gas.

What do you guys recommend with respect to makes etc.

My house is a storey and a half in southern Ontario, Canada.

Any good installers you recommend, prices?

thanks

Betz

what about

those electric hydronic baseboard heaters you can get from Lowe's? Or is that what you meant? Just curious, saw those the other day while looking around.

Jammer_2

Actually I just meant your normal electric baseboard heat compared to hydronic baseboard heat. Comfort wise I would think the 2 would be the same. Is that true? What about an energy cost comparison?

jbplumber

The Math and Some Comfort Considerations

I think that comfort wise electric baseboard is not as comfortable as hydronic, especially so when the hydronic system has outdoor reset. With electric baseboards they tend to have that silly electrical smell and they seem drier as well. Since they aren't on a reset they tend to come on quickly, causing some sounds and also not giving a gradual buildup in heat. They are however extrememly inexpensive to purchase along with their controls and if your electric rates are low enough or it costs too much money to run piping somewhere they serve a useful purpose. They are 100% efficient using the KWHs you purchase, but when the price per BTU is more than 50% higher than other sources of home heating energy they are not as economical.


How much is a gallon of oil where you live verses a KWH of electricity? Take your price of electricity (price per KWH) and multiply it by 30. If that is less than the a gallon of #2 oil then you could consider electric.


#2 is 140,000 btu/gal (Low efficency @ 75%)

Electricty is 3413 btu/KWH (End use @ 100%)

jerry scharf_2

Outdoor reset is key

Jammer,

If you run the hot water baseboards in on/off at max temperature, I think the comfort is about the same. The hot water units will be a bit quieter, but you will still have a fair amount of noise and the baseboards expand and contract with the on and off.

With outdoor reset, the temeperature to the baseboards go up as the outside air temp goes down. This means that the water flows through the baseboard most of the time, noise is greatly reduces and comfort increases. With outdoor reset, you can also look at gas condensing/modulating boilers, which will make the overall system more efficient.

jerry

Weezbo

i will tell you a story ..........

some friends invitedme by the house to fix some leak....while there i noticed they had electric heat,iasked them what thier montly cost inelectric were.."7->800$" "Wow! let me put some radiant floor in for you and a boiler"..."how much?" "thousands buh you will see it back in this winter""Well.....no we dont have much money"..couple years later i get a call....we are taking out a loan and would like you to come by...i hooked up some radiant floor and a few runs of Convectors(baseboard) Christmas they call me "Hey" Come on over"i figure they have some problem with some sink or something they had mentioned....these two professionals were so happy i had talked them into it because they finally had grocery money. i have to say when you least can afford something and buy it and it turns the day to day comfort both physical and finacial you sure appreciate it.

Jeff Lawrence_24

you hit it perfectly

> some friends invitedme by the house to fix some

> leak....while there i noticed they had electric

> heat,iasked them what thier montly cost

> inelectric were.."7-_800$" "Wow! let me put some

> radiant floor in for you and a boiler"..."how

> much?" "thousands buh you will see it back in

> this winter""Well.....no we dont have much

> money"..couple years later i get a call....we are

> taking out a loan and would like you to come

> by...i hooked up some radiant floor and a few

> runs of Convectors(baseboard) Christmas they call

> me "Hey" Come on over"i figure they have some

> problem with some sink or something they had

> mentioned....these two professionals were so

> happy i had talked them into it because they

> finally had grocery money. i have to say when

> you least can afford something and buy it and it

> turns the day to day comfort both physical and

> finacial you sure appreciate it.





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Jeff Lawrence_24

you hit it perfectly

It's a pay me a little now or pay the utility a lot for a long time.

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Jammer_2

> I think that comfort wise electric baseboard is

> not as comfortable as hydronic, especially so

> when the hydronic system has outdoor reset. With

> electric baseboards they tend to have that silly

> electrical smell and they seem drier as well.

> Since they aren't on a reset they tend to come on

> quickly, causing some sounds and also not giving

> a gradual buildup in heat. They are however

> extrememly inexpensive to purchase along with

> their controls and if your electric rates are low

> enough or it costs too much money to run piping

> somewhere they serve a useful purpose. They are

> 100% efficient using the KWHs you purchase, but

> when the price per BTU is more than 50% higher

> than other sources of home heating energy they

> are not as economical.

>

> How much is a gallon

> of oil where you live verses a KWH of

> electricity? Take your price of electricity

> (price per KWH) and multiply it by 30. If that is

> less than the a gallon of #2 oil then you could

> consider electric.

>

> #2 is 140,000 btu/gal

> (Low efficency @ 75%)

>

> Electricty is 3413

> btu/KWH (End use @ 100%)



Thanks for all the responses. Uni R your #'s cleared some things up for me. I looked at my electric bill and it's not very easy to figure out what they're charging you per KWh. I figure it's somewhere around 8 cents per KWh. Oil and propane are both around $2 per gallon. Interestingly propane costs more than the oil per gallon, but it looks like the heat output of oil per gallon is better. Does that make sense?

Jammer_2

Thanks for all the responses. Uni R your #'s cleared some things up for me. I looked at my electric bill and it's not very easy to figure out what they're charging you per KWh. I figure it's somewhere around 8 cents per KWh. Oil and propane are both around $2 per gallon. Interestingly propane costs more than the oil per gallon, but it looks like the heat output of oil per gallon is better. Does that make sense?

Uni R

Propane costs...

I have never heard of any area where propane is cheaper per BTU than oil. To calculate your electric bill, take the total and then subtract the monthly charge. Take the balance and divide it by the KWHs and you'll have your average cost per KWH. LPG is harder to transport and store than oil and that may be why you pay more for it... noting that logic could never be a true part of commodity pricing.

George_10

Old folks on fixed incomes

are really hit by high energy bills. If they are short of money, they live in sweaters and multi-layer clothing. It is a fact of life in this country that some seniors really are up against it with high energy bills and high medical expenses.

Are there programs in your areas to help these folks get more efficient systems installed for their heating needs?

I wonder if they are taken advantage of or abused. Just some rendom thoughts on high energy bills.