Contractors 2000 / Nexstar

DaveGateway

I've searched the archives and found that several people that post here are or were members of the organization.
I'm thinking of getting involved with the group but it's a pretty big financial commitment at first.
I'm told that a silver membership would probably work best for my company.
Any thoughts?

Thank you to all who reply.

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Ken_8

I have never heard anything

positive about them; just mostly negative stuff.

Their goals seemed unrealistic, based on salesmanship and games - never any mention of quality work or substantive things. Take a look at most of the original charter members...

Most of them left the businesses they self-destructed and got rich selling FR pricing schemes, classes or books related thereto. None of them succeeded at doing what you and I do. Most left the business they claimed to know how to profit from - and then went on to destroy other opportunities they developed once their credibility was lost.

Other than a few die-hards selling the same old "get rich quick" schemes, they do serve little purpose, other than to beat their own cause. One is forced to wonder what desperate means one will move towards to buy into such contrived measures?

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DaveGateway

I've thought about that.

I'm far from sold on the idea of joining, Ken, but it seems that the shops I know that are members are doing quite well.

Though, without much help from anyone else, my brother (partner) and I have no reason to complain.

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Paul Pollets

My Experience

I was a member in the early days and my experience was highly positive. It was costly to belong but the bottom line was programs were made available to increase profits and build a strong business that had systems in place, rather than chaos. They made it easy to implement proven methods of aquiring and retaining customers, salesmanship training, technician training, operations manuals, etc. Some of the best in the business were early members. If you run more than 2-3 trucks, it's a great way to learn how to build your company. Mike Diamond, one of the charter members of C2000, now has his own program: "Plumber's Success International",
http://www.plumberssuccess.com/index.aspx

Some of these groups have a moneyback guarantee. Choose wisely. Talk to other members who run a similarly sized company. These programs are all about making your business more successful. They work if you're willing and able to implement.

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Rookie

What ??????????

Hey Ken what the hell are you talking about?
I know many members of that group that are outstanding business people and are credits to the industry.

Michael Bohinc, CPA

My C2000/Nexstar experience

My family was involved in Nexstar (C2000 at the time) for about 8 years. We were involved in the fairly early days. My first experience was at the 2nd Super Meeting in Myrtle Beach, SC. I went down to the meeting myself knowing no one but Frank Blau basically. I left that meeting (that about 80 people or so attended) with many new friends and associates. Unfortunately, my family's business is no longer involved with the group. It was solely based on the family business going in a different direction. Nexstar, at the time we left, was an OUTSTANDING group with GREAT leadership and wonderful members. I'm fortunate to still call many members friends. There's no question that the investment in the group (like many of the others) is significant. However, I always contended AND STILL CONTEND that the value received in return for the programs, materials, etc. that were developed was WELL WORTH the financial investment. Like anything else though, your investment in time is as great as the financial investment. Translation: There is NO MAGIC PILL or GROUP out there. Like anything else, you get as much out of it as you put into it. Like Paul said, you should investigate any group (or software package, or boiler line, etc.) and ask for references as well prior to making any investment decision. I would be glad to talk more about the group with anyone who would like to know more of our experience.
Don't simply listen to what one or two people have to say about something (whether it's positive or negative). Investigate and ask questions yourself. Good luck.

Michael Bohinc, CPA

My C2000/Nexstar experience

My family was involved in Nexstar (C2000 at the time) for about 8 years. We were involved in the fairly early days. My first experience was at the 2nd Super Meeting in Myrtle Beach, SC. I went down to the meeting myself knowing no one but Frank Blau basically. I left that meeting (that about 80 people or so attended) with many new friends and associates. During our membership, at least one employee was at every Super Meeting held except for one due to illness. Unfortunately, my family's business is no longer involved with the group. The family business decided to go in a different direction...to my own personal chagrin. Nexstar, at the time we left, was an OUTSTANDING group with GREAT leadership and wonderful members. I'm fortunate to still call many members friends. There's no question that the investment in the group (like many of the others) is significant. However, I always contended AND STILL CONTEND that the value received in return for the programs, materials, etc. that were developed was WELL WORTH the financial investment. Like anything else though, your investment in time is as great as the financial investment. Translation: There is NO MAGIC PILL or GROUP out there. Like anything else, you get as much out of it as you put into it. Like Paul said, you should investigate any group (or software package, or boiler line, etc.) and ask for references as well prior to making any investment decision. I would be glad to talk more about the group with anyone who would like to know more of our experience.
Don't simply listen to what one or two people have to say about something (whether it's positive or negative). Investigate and ask questions yourself. Good luck.

DaveGateway

?

You stated "The family business decided to go in a different direction".

With all due respect, it seems contradictory given your admiration of the group.

When I first posted my question, I think I was most interested in replies from those who left C2K. What were their reasons for leaving? For that matter, what are the reasons for joining?

Care to share yours?

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Ken_8

Who?

Frank Blau?

Maurice Maio?

Please. Take a deep breath and ask yourself why would anyone want to pay someone else to do something they should have done from jump street on their own?

The blind leading the blind.

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Michael Bohinc, CPA

reason for leaving

John...fair question. Bottom line: Family disagreement. I don't own the company...only an employee. I gave my professional opinion and they decided to leave. At the time, it was based mostly on financial situation. That has since changed. What were the reasons for joining? We wanted to join with other contractors who ran similar operations to share successful strategies, systems and to pool resources to improve our business. All of those things happened. At the time, Nexstar was the only group of it's kind out there...especially for plumbers. I am aware that Contractors Success Group was operating at that time as well. Membership had a positive impact on our business over the years. As to Mr. Secor's comments on members "profiting" from others, there were only a few individuals who went in that direction. I disagree with Ken that Frank Blau is or was one of those individuals. We have to simply agree to disagree on Mr. Blau. Both our opinions on him were formed and cemented MANY years ago.
John, I hope this answers your questions. If not, you're welcome to e-mail me privately with more questions.

Michael Bohinc, CPA

reason for leaving

John...fair question. Bottom line: Family disagreement. I don't own the company...only an employee. I gave my professional opinion and they decided to leave. At the time, it was based mostly on financial situation. That has since changed. What were the reasons for joining? We wanted to join with other contractors who ran similar operations to share successful strategies, systems and to pool resources to improve our business. All of those things happened. At the time, Nexstar was the only group of it's kind out there...especially for plumbers. I am aware that Contractors Success Group was operating at that time as well. Membership had a positive impact on our business over the years. As to Mr. Secor's comments on members "profiting" from others, there were only a few individuals who went in that direction. I disagree with Ken that Frank Blau is or was one of those individuals. We have to simply agree to disagree on Mr. Blau. Both our opinions on him were formed and cemented MANY years ago. Ken also asked why would anyone want to pay someone else to do something they should have done from jump street on their own. That's a simple answer. Most people didn't want to re-invent the wheel. ALSO, with VERY few exceptions, the contractors are/were wonderful plumbers, electricians, HVAC people. HOWEVER, MOST also lacked business or marketing skills beyond the rudimentary level. John, I hope this answers your questions. If not, you're welcome to e-mail me privately with more questions.

DaveGateway

Thank you, Mr. Bohinc.

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Big Idahoan

just joined

Our small plumbing & radiant heating shop (11 employees including my wife and i ) has been looking for ways to improve in a lot of areas. it is hard to find time to come up with all the different programs that a company should be implementing, feeling overwhelmed my wife and i went to the ish show in boston to learn more about business. we attended every seminar we could (hers were all on business and mine on business and radiant ). we have called members of QSC and nexstar for references and decided that we like what the members of nexstar had to say. yesterday we sent in our application for membership, and also signed up for their money masters event in boulder colorado this month. i cant wait to start improving our profits and programs for us and our employees.

Tom_35

My opinion

Our company has been a membe of a contractor's group for many years. Yes, it's a big investment---but it can have a big payout if you follow the format.

How many owners grew up with tools in their hands? Probably most of us. That being said, we understand that side of the business, but most don't have a good handle on the business end. Lots of great technicians have tried to start a company and fall on their face because they didn't know how to sell their services, or how to get business when the phone wasn't ringing.

Knowing your numbers, how to price to get the correct gross margins (which 9 out of 10 contractors don't know), how to recruit and train, marketing, accounting. etc, etc. is what a lot of contractors don't know.

Nexstar, Plumbers Success Internation, AirTime 500 have more ideas that most companies could implement. The Wall is an incredible source for technical information. The groups are more geared for business information. You can also get technical and business information from the ServiceRoundtable and the PlumbingRoundtable---both of which are internet based.

There is not a day that goes by that I do not check out the postings on The Wall and ServiceRoundtable. Before you make up your mind that you can't be helped by others, check these folks out.

You can be an excellent technician and a poor business person---and go broke. You can also be a good technician and a good business person and make a very good living.

Your Choice---

Tom

Mark Eatherton1

I think your estimate is low Tom...

I think it's more like 5% good business men and 95% poor businessmen/good mechanic.

I used to be a part of the 95%ers too, before I got educated through C2000.

Unfortunately, not everyone was born with Ken Secors business acumen, and that's not meant as a slam Ken...

The fact that these groups promote the use of flat rate pricing is what Ken bristles about, and that's his perogative, but truthfully, how many succesful helper groups have you seen that promote T&M practices?:-)

Bottom line, it doesn't matter HOW you purvey your services to the end user. If you don't know your costs, and you don't know how to market yourself, you will always be nothing more than a poor, good cheap wrencher.

Been there, done that, wish I'd have done it differently sooner.

John I think that ANY organization that has been around for as long as C2K has has GOT to be a worthwhile investment, but in order for IT to work, YOU must work, using the TOOLS that they have to offer, and that investment in time is a pretty substantial investment.

It WILL be an eye opening, learning experience, regardless of your long term choice.

ME

DaveGateway

With all due respect,...

...here's where I take issue.

Who is responsible for this idea that 95% of the plumbing/heating contractors in America are bad businessmen, or ill-equipped to run a successful or profitable company.

While I agree that Mr. Secor's comments were, at best, coarse, I understand his frustration undoubtedly derived from being part of an entire industry targetted, time and time again, by sales pitches of any number of products and services promising a better life to we, who are thought to be, the poor and uneducated masses.

Having that off my chest, I ask you this flat out: What do I get for my first check @ $20,000 besides flowery business terms for "know your costs, keep your prices right" and "make the customer happy"?







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hr

Why not

contact past and present members directly?

I'm not sure you get the real scoop from someone that "hates" the group Or was never a member.

I, too, was an early member. C-2000 allowed us to build a profitable and preimer plumbing service company which continues to grow and prosper after our 3 employees bought us out 10 years ago.

I credit much of our sucess, as well as the sucess of the current owners, to the programs and training obtained through C-2000. As well as the networking we continue, to this day, with fine contractors we met through C-2000.

Let's see how many pro and con replies you get here. I'd be glad to share any info to help you decide.

Yes I agree, you need to go in with an open mind and use the info and members help to improve. Just sending a check doesn't change a thing. It can be a big time commitment to make big changes.

hot rod



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Rookie

Wait

Great advice Hot Rod, you should wait gather all the information you can and make a decision your comfortable with. i have been to many business seminars, some were great some not so great, but you always can take away a little something that may help your business. There are so many great resources out there.

John R. Hall

Two cents worth

Having seen and met with most of the contractor groups across North America, I think I can offer a learned opinion.

People join groups for many different reasons but the number one reason is because they want to make their business more profitable -- bottom line. There are many ways to do this, i.e. idea sharing, education, profit days, seminars, etc. It is all out there for the taking, in many different forms.

I say investigate all of them and talk with members. There are some groups with 400-500 members and others with 10 members. Each offers different features and benefits. Some are better than others.

Saying that contractors need help running their business paints a broad stroke over everyone and is not necessarily true. I think it is better to say that contractors recognize their own shortcomings and seek help to educate themselves. You can't fault a person for wanting to better himself or herself. If you join, try, and fail, then you probably didn't do your homework or used the new group as a social gathering rather than an educational one. If you join, try, and succeed, it is because you applied what you learned.

I have found that the best groups are those consisting of your peers, i.e. ACCA "Mix" Groups. These are small groups made up of contractors with similar business profiles who share all of their business practices and financials with other members of their non-competitive group. I can't think of a better way to learn than from someone who faces the exact same challenges -- and is no threat to you.

In the end, you only get out what you put in. If you feel you don't need to go this route and your business runs like a well-tuned Mercedes, great. You are one of the lucky ones.

John MacGregor_3

Nexstar/C2000

Congratulations copper kip,
I don't know why Ken is so bitter or even involved in blasting industry heroes such as Frank Blau.He seems to be jealous of Frank's leadership in the industry. If he thinks Frank's rate of $1000 to fly to your area, pay for a hotel room and miscellaneous expenses, at least one night away from home, all the educational literature that you get (got, since he has now retired), that leaves scarce little for him, especially since he is away from his business, which always costs money.
Frank has educated more contractors than Ken has any idea of. If you ever get a chance to visit Frank and read some of the letters he has recieved from formerly failing contractors, you would realize how much he has done for this industry.
C2000/Nexstar is a member owned corporation, it was not designed to make one or two owners rich by going public, as some of the other groups are.
You have made a wise decision, the same one we made 12 years ago when C2000 was just getting started.
One area where Ken is off base is that many of those who dropped out of the organization sold out and retired at a hefty profit. That may not have been possible without outside help.
Good luck,
John

Mark Eatherton1

Well John...

I guess you're one of the 5 percenters:-) Congratulations!!

I believe I read that 95/5 stat in the BBB files or somewhere like that. I can also relate becasue I've been doing this for 30 years and have seen them come and go. I came, and I went. I was one of the 95% ers.

ME

John R. Hall

Mark

As you know, I don't have a business. So I am neither in the 5 or 95.

:-)

hr

When it comes to the financial component

I have it from a very good source, a person that has recieved and reviewed financial data, or visited hundreds of plumbing and heating shops from small one man 100K shops to multi million dollar operations that @ 5% of all shop owners actually know how to read, use, or set up P&L, Balance sheets, etc.

Most mechanice (plumbing and HVAC)have the trade skills from actual experience, or trade tech training, often being raised in a family business. Few, if any, recieve basic business training. It's not taught at the high school level and a business owner would need to persue this info to find it.

Most folks that go into the trades as they are good techie people. Able to fix and install and driven to do so. Rare to find a plumber that started in business for the business sake of the plumbing trade.

I'd guess this is true in the unions also. Do they teach business skills to an apprentice or journeymen level tradespersons?

Don't, in fact, most states, cities and towns require a masters or contractors license to start a plumbing or HVAC company. At least if you intend to pull permits and have inspections for work other than your personal use

I've been licensed to work in four different states in my career. Yet to have one ask about my business skills before getting my business license. But I've been through some tough journeymen and masters tests to get a business license

hot rod

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Michael Bohinc, CPA

business education

Hot Rod...thanks for the post re: lack of business education. I THINK I know your source of information. She lives REAL close to you, right?! ) My post about the lack of business acumen was NOT meant to slam ANYONE out there!! My comment was blunt but true. It's based on my experiences within the industry organizations and watching my family business growing up. I know that if I wanted to install a boiler or backflow, I'd need the education and training properly since I don't have that background. The same holds true for the technician who wants to start his/her own contracting business. It's about Michael Gerber's points in the "E-Myth" book. Thanks again for making the point that I was trying to make. My best to your wife.

Mark Eatherton1

Wrong John, John...

My comment was meant for JohnNy. Sorry for the cornfusion.

ME

Tom_35

Ellen is right!

Very few of the HVAC contractors I know are familiar with their financial and what they mean. I've been to numerous seminars where contractors are told about the difference between margin and mark-up. Even though they are shown how these numbers make a huge difference in the end, they still continue to base their prices off what the other guy is doing.

My Dad started our business in 1958. He had an 8th grade education, got his GED after serving his country in WWII, then went to A/C school at night while working during the day. When he finally started working in A/C for a contractor, he only knew his tools. When the contractor decided to get out of the business, Dad bought him out and started on his own.

When I joined the business in 1971, Dad still didn't know financials and when we had money left over at the end of the year, his response was "That's really good. We made a living for X numbers of families this this and have some money left in the bank."

I knew nothing about financials either and I had gone to college. I worked with tools in my hands on service and installation. After attending some 2-3 day seminars, the lights started to come on. We then joined CSG as charter members and the training started. I took general managers courses, accounting courses, management courses, service administration courses---all things that I would have stumbled through had we not belonged to an organization that teaches the owner/manager how to run the business.

Some people, like Ken, will disagree with all that I have said, but if they want to do some close analysises, they will find that a large majority of contractors are working in their business, rather than on their business---and they probably don't know what their true costs are, and more than likely don't have a clue where they are financially until the end of the year.

Again, Ellen is right!

Tom A.

hr

Maybe just some KFP would help!

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,141115,00.html

hot rod

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