Orange Pex problem

Cheeze-Tech

I ran into some bad pex today and was wondering if anyone else has run into it or knows anything about any recalls on it. What I found was 1" orange pex tubing with a layer of aluminum (?) and an outer layer of the same orange pex. The inner layer looks like it split along a seam the length of the tubing. This tubing is used on an outdoor wood burner and travels 55-60' under ground and in cement to the garage the manifold. Was this bad tubing or incorrect application for the tubing? My though is that the install has to be less then 15 yrs so if its bad tubing there could be warranty issues. Didn't think about it until I left the job so I did not look for any writting on the tubing.

Any info anyone has would be appreciated. Any thoughts as to what to replace this stuff with? I've got to run something about 35' outside from the woodburner to the garage (over top of a huge pile of wood thats in-between). The home owner wants to run 1" copper pipe with insulation. In southern Wisconsin I don't think I want to do it!

Cheeze-Tech

Problem with Orange Alumi (?) Pex

I ran into some bad pex today and was wondering if anyone else has run into it or knows anything about any recalls on it. What I found was 1" orange pex tubing with a layer of aluminum (?) and an outer layer of the same orange pex. The inner layer looks like it split along a seam the length of the tubing. I assume the outer layer has split underground. This tubing is used on an outdoor wood burner and travels 55-60' in the ground and in cement to the garage the manifold. Was this bad tubing or incorrect application for the tubing? My thought is that the install has to be less then 15 yrs so if its bad tubing there could be warranty issues. Didn't think about it until I left the job so I did not look for any writting on the tubing.

Any info anyone has would be appreciated. Any thoughts as to what to replace this stuff with? I've got to run something about 35' outside from the woodburner to the garage (over top of a huge pile of wood thats in-between). The home owner wants to run 1" copper pipe with insulation. In southern Wisconsin I don't think I want to do it!

Thanks!

Steve Ebels_2

See.............

"FAILED KITEC PIPE PICTURES", posted below.

None of us know any more than you and Kitec hasn't come up with anything yet.

kevin coppinger_4

I had some pex....

do that when a boiler "ran away" on me 5 yrs. ago It saw temps of 240F+.....Wood boilers can easily run away....kpc

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Betz

yes but

it would seem very difficult for a wood boiler to reach those types of temps since they are not under pressure.

Go to Central Boiler's website, they have a product that you can run above ground for a fairly long period and seems to be very well protected.

kevin coppinger_4

are you...

sure the boiler was not under pressure? kpc

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Betz

Outdoor Boilers

generally have a big vent somewhere in the top of them so they don't turn into a giant bomb. I think that's actually one of the knocks against them from their critics. They are open to the air and more importantly for corrosion purposes, oxygen. Maybe some are pressurized but I looked at a bunch before buying mine and have yet to find one.

hr

There are a number

of units that are pressurized. Aquatherm and Royall are two brands that I sell that are pressurized. The Royall is the only brand I have found with an ASME "H" stamp, by the way

There are also a couple "semi pressurized" brands that run 2-5 psi with a bladder expansion device. A simple two pound weight on an opening at top is the pressure relief regulator. Kinda of caveman-ish, but hey, it does work.

Thinking of doing all my future outdoor units with copper. That 230- 240° number comes up a bit around here also, I've done it myself a couple times with my two wood burners.

I use InsulSeal for my outdoor installs also. I should be able to thread 1" copper through that product.

It's just not worth the potential call back. Unfortunatly most of the other installers around here just direct bury the tube with insulation. That involves a complete dig up, at the worse time of the year, when a tube fails.

Kitec is by far the most common brand of PAP sold with outdoor units. All six brands represented at this years FarmFest had Kitec on display.

Not sure I am ready to condem the brand of tube. I'm not sure they intended for it to run at that high of temperature, at pressure, for long periods.

On the other side of the coin, I had one customer already FREEZE and outdoor boiler that I installed this year. He went out of town over the weekend we had single digit temperatures. Luckly just a split Y strainer. The glycol option looked better to him after this mistake

hot rod

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Betz

I stand corrected

I've never seen those in all the looking I've done. Thanks for the information. Those look pretty nice.

Cheeze-Tech

Pressurized

I do believe this system was pressurized. I seem to remember a red bladder tank/scoop/auto vent set up right at the boiler. I think the system did have a temperature/overheating problem at one time. I only talked to the Homeowner on the phone. His wife let me in the house and showed me the system.
I guess the question now is what's the best fix. Is there a fix for the over temp. problem? I haven't worked on any outdoor woodburners before so I don't know their querks. Also, like I said, I have to run outdoors/above ground approx 35' to get to the garage. In So. WI design temp is -10 but it can get down to -30 in extreme conditions. I will add any further usefull info after I talk to the HO again.

Thanks for all the input!

Cheeze-Tech

Pressurized

I do believe this system was pressurized. I seem to remember a red bladder tank/scoop/auto vent set up right at the boiler. I think the system did have a temperature/overheating problem at one time. I only talked to the Homeowner on the phone. His wife let me in the house and showed me the system.
I guess the question now is what's the best fix. Is there a fix for the over temp. problem? I haven't worked on any outdoor woodburners before so I don't know their querks. Also, like I said, I have to run outdoors/above ground approx 35' to get to the garage. In So. WI design temp is -10 but it can get down to -30 in extreme conditions. I will add any further usefull info after I talk to the HO again.

Thanks for all the input!

Cheeze-Tech

Failed pex

I just looked at the pictures. From the outside it looks just like the pipe I have, only I don't actually have any that is ruptured thru to the exterior. The section I have was cut off at the boiler (I believe it was the supply) and looking down in it the inner layer is ruptured in towards the center of the pipe. The piece I have is about 8" long and is split from end to end, like someone ran a knife down the inside of the pipe. I will try to find out the manufacturer of the pex I have.

Betz

here's one product

you might look into. I'm not sure if it will stand the extreme cold you are talking about but a pro might be able to tell you more. Also you could call the product manufacturer or a local dealer if you find one.

http://www.centralboiler.com/faq.html