Buderus Install Pictures Whats Wrong

RoosterBoy

hay guys my boiler is done can anyone tell me what's wrong with it on the supply header from left to right

the first 007 is my dhw
the next is my hydro air
the next is my baseboard

this is a buderus g115 28 with lt 160 42gl dhw tank and r 2109 controller power vented

the company that did this install is a 80% service and 20% install and you can tell by the no so nice looking install

I tried to get them to do it neat I made the board and painted it and laid it out but they changed things on me left scags on my solder joints also I think my dhw should have been copper piped with 1 inch copper instead 3/4 from the taco 007

but please let me know if anything should be repiped or changed

thanks

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

The first thing

I noticed is what seems to be a check valve before the air separator. If you don't have checks after the individual circulators, you will get phantom flow on "off" zones when any of the other two zones are on.

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RoosterBoy

ok so one should be added before the air scoop?
also i dont know if this helps but each of my 007
have a intergrated flow check valve

thanks

Steve Ebels_2

1st off

Without looking at the pics I can tell you right of that a 007 on 3/4" pipe will not provide required flow to make the DHW tank perform as expected. You need something that will drive 8.8 gpm @ over 6 ft of head plus you piping losses for the tank.

On the main pic, I see no flow checks anywhere. This will make for some very hot DHW due to the afore mentioned "ghost flow". There should be one on each circ for zone piping and DHW.

I'll look over the rest of the pics tonight.

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

You're fine

I saw the IFC's, but it just didn't register.

You don't need to add a check valve before the air scoop; I just thought I saw one there, just upstream of the elbow. Maybe it's a ball valve.

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dconnors

i agree

domestic piping should have been 1" with a 0010 circ.

Ron Schroeder_4

Is that a spirovent or similar in the DHW loop?

1" or 1 1/4" will give you more out of your indirect but you may never notice.

RoosterBoy

yes they just added a spirovent last a few days ago i gess they forgot when they added baseboards to my house

also can they add 1 inch copper to my dhw. with the header i have now. so all we would have to do is change the cerc flange on the top to 1 inch because my header is 3/4 inch before all cerc's

toearly_2

Ball Valves seem to be in the wrong location

It looks like the return drops in pipe size

David

RoosterBoy

yes toearly the header's they ordered is 1/14
so on the return they reduced down to 1 inch

so supply is 1/4
return 1 inch

thanks

Eric_19

The feed valve feeds into a pipe that goes up into the air scoop and down to I don't know where?

RoosterBoy

that pipe that go's down from the air scoop go's into the Expansion tank

lchmb

.02 cents

Being someone that does service, and the nightly emergency call. I personally would want to see more shutoff's.. It is a cheap price that some time down the road could save you alot of headaches. I like to see a shutoff before and after all circulators, feed valves and one on the expansion tank. At two in the morning when a circ goes bad it suck's to have to drain a zone down to replace it. I would also recommend if you have kid's you get those purge valves capped off. New thing's and young kid's like to open things....Curious though, why did they put a spirovent on the DHW zone and not just on the main header?

RoosterBoy

I guess they forgot to put it on the main and used a air scoop instead and at the last min when I wanted them to install baseboard's they put it in on the dhw.

keep it coming guys

RoosterBoy

should I change my dhw piping to 1 inch and up the cerc or should I keep the 007 with 3/4 inch pipe

if I change it will I see a difference

when I take a nice 7 to 10 min shower it takes 15 min to recover my hot water

thanks

Rookie

Power Venter

How about some pics of the power venter.I really like the Buderus Blue paint on the plywood manifold wall.The BTU's and flow will determine your manifold size, I would say that is looks nice.You did a good job, you learned about about a product and understood the concept and had the company do it to your specifications, way to go Roosterboy!Cock a doodle do !

lchmb

two other questions

Just a thing I alway's do, even though the copper run on the floor is coated it is not protected. I sleeve mine through 1/2 blue sleeve. That and what type of filtering system are you using for your oil supply? Can't really see it..:( must be I'm getting old LOL...

Glenn_3

Just curious why the DHW circulator isn't fed from the Taco control?

RoosterBoy

the dhw cerc is put into the r209 on the top and is set to priority and other 2 are put into the the taco and when a call for heat is needed the taco send the call to the r209 tt

I did not wire it im just guessing from reading the wiring book im sure that's how they did it

Ron Schroeder_3

Increasing the pipe size will help more than increasing the pump but you still have quite a restriction from the 3/4" manifold outlets. This is going from memory on Taco pump curves. If I remember correctly, that Buderus indirect wants to see about 13 gpm for rated recovery.

I would brake in to the return close to the boiler with a 1" "T" and the supply just before the union at the manifold with a 1 1/4" "T" for the DHW instead of running the DHW from the manifolds.

Ron

Ron Schroeder_3

Is there a flex oil line to the burner so you can open the boiler front for service?

Ron

Joe@buderus

install suggestions

Supply and return headers should be the same size (Is that a reducing coupling connecting the return manifold to the return piping?), Spirovent on the main supply, DHW piping must be 1". Would change the DHW circulator only if looking for higher GPM out of tank. Loop in the oil line next to burner. Flexible oil line to allow for cleaning without disconnecting the oil line. Would have Service switch/power shut off closer to burner.Nice touch with the "Blue" painted board, manifolds mounted to the board, insulation on pipes.
Thanks, Joe

Mellow_2

roosterboy

the board looks great. Why didn't you do the whole job, you sound like you know how to do it and I think it would have come out better.............. why did they even put on the air scoop if they have a spyrovent, They could have used a spyrovent on the whole system. the circs are IFC's and they have the checks built in (if anyone wanted to know). I would have a 1" line to the indirect so it will heat the best. good luck

Ted_9

I dont like the way they allowed for purging but it does look pretty neat and clean and they used some black pipe. I would go with what Joe said about the domestic.

Looking good man.

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jim lockard

how about just

Cleaning up. In addition to what others have said the job looks sloppy. trim the wire ties, 90 degree bx connectors on the other 2 pump cables, trim the insulation just clean it up. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Ted_9

Wow thats funny, I totally ignored the wiring. Yes it looks like an octopus. Clean it up with some clips, like Jim said.


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RoosterBoy

if I would have piped this boiler it would have looked much better also I wanted the taco zone controller down on the bottom right hand corner so the cerc wiring would look nicer. they did not want to put it there because they said it would be a little harder to service. I think is a bunch of bull. also I wanted the power Venter controller on the 2x8 just above the air scoop. again to hard to service

also I wanted the scags removed after soldering they did not do that.

also the brackets holding the manifolds are not straight like I would have made them it's a shame to see such a nice boiler that could look much better is not

I even had to bend the emt for the electrical because they wanted to wrap all the wiring around the supply header.

but I got what I got and there's nothing I can do now.
but pay someone more to fix my dhw or I can Waite till summer and take the caps off the end manifolds and a 1 inch t and re pipe the dhw tank with 1 inch copper
now after looking at this job im sad I wish I did all the piping myself and I wish they would have did what I asked them instead of giving me the it's harder to service there

in a zone controller once it's set what can go wrong the relays snap out and your back online :-)

oh well keep it coming guys also should I take out the reducer for the return that go's down to one inch and keep the return the same size as the supply 1/1/4

thanks

Bill_39

Remember this?

Date: December 12, 2004 12:29 PM
Author: RoosterBoy



hay guys dont take this the wrong way or anything but a few months ago when I was in the market for a complete new heating system and hotwater I wanted buderus.

one guy wanted $150 just to come out and tell me what he thinks I should install.

so what I told him was if you want my business you have to earn it don't just come out here take my money and give a $35,000 quote and make $150 and walk away knowing I cant spend that. so I think charging a diagnostic fee for a bran new heating system was his loss.

I just spent 18,000 for a new buderus g115 r2109 controller lt160 hotwater tank 2 ton air handler all new duct work and 44 feet of baseboards and a power Venter. and I had a real good company that dose all the cumberin farms stores and town hall and school heating and cooling systems so they are a good company.

so what im saying is he lost $150 plus any money on this job that he could have made.

it's like going to the dealer to buy a new car and the sales guy says hay if you want to see the car and test drive it and you want me to talk to you about it it will cost you $150 are you going to spend a $150 on something you may not even want or may not even able to afford

I don't think so. that sales man if he wants my business he has to earn it and not just take my money

you have to give a little to get a little.

and in business there are losses but that's the cost of doing business. you win some and you loose some. suck it up and move on

that's my 2 cents

kevin coppinger_4

Joe.. buderus...

only allows for a 1" tap on the return on the 115 series ( with the special bushing)...that is even the case for the 34 model. I understood that unless they were working off something other that the 20 degree delta T.....I guess the 1 1/4" on the supply tapping allows for slower velocity fto help rid the system of air....kpc

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RoosterBoy

oh thanks allot bill seems like you have allot of hate towards me and I don't understand why ive never done anything to you. but if you don't like me just don't talk to or about me

thanks

jim lockard

press. relief

so Rooster I bet you feel blessed that the PRV got turned upright, as for the zone controller and the rest of the electrical if they had just run it up and down with some short pieces of conduit it would look much better. Maybe you could paint it all blue? Best Wishes J.Lockard

jcarta

piping

The picture is alittle hard to see but i think i see black bushings in the brass tees for the domestic hot water and cold supply -maybe maybe not but check it out to be sure

jcarta

buderus indirect piping

are those are black bushings on the domestic cold and hot water supply in the brass tees?-if they are they need to be removed-in the picture its hard to tell but you better check it out to be sure

Ted_9

jcarta, good eye, think your right. Also look at the recirculation line. They stucl a well in there using a coupling. Cant tell if its black or brass. BTW, if its the recirc line there is no need for the well other than pluging up the hole.

http://www.buderus.net/Portals/0/Lit-L135-200-IOM-01.pdf

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RoosterBoy

yes i think in picure 004 they are black bushing.

please let me know whats wrong with keeping them
man you guys have good eye's

Rookie

Need a long Arm

I want to see that power vent piping and the termination, does it meet the clearences for safety, is it 12" above the average snowfall, how about the location from doors and windows?
You are going to need one long arm to operate that burner switch while observing the flame.What state do you live in, did you need a permit, what are the combustion test results?

Ted_9

You cannot use black on domestic water. It rusts. It is unhealthy and not safe and not code anywhere.


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jim lockard

leaves

funny little things on your tooth brush

RoosterBoy

on my return is the reducer i have that go's down from 1/1/4
to one inch ok or will it cause problems haveing a reducer
on the return

thanks

Ron Schroeder_4

Joe@Buderus... A question.

> Supply and return headers should be the same size

> Thanks, Joe




Hi Joe,

You have me confused. Why should they be the same size, as long as they are not undersized?

By the way, I usually bump up the return to 1 1/4" right at the nipple on the boiler. What do you think of doing that?

Ron

RoosterBoy

just got off the phone with my contractor they are going to fix all this for me

thanks everyone for all your help and good advice
i will update you all with new pictures when it's re done