dirty deeds done dirt cheap (Munchkin cleaning)

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this Munch I installed last Feb. Plugged drain triggered lock out. I pulled the burner to see hands full of coffee ground consistency sludge.

I suspect this unit, installed in a feed store, has been sucking dust around the case, when they sweep up. Although it is insatlled in a small room with a door to separate it from the feed storage area.

Sure would like to see some new cases, HTP!! These old style seem to shrink or warp or something??

The backing for the circuit board warped and cracked also, although the unit runs at 120°. I don't think it got too hot inside??

I took a bunch of grabbers and finish washers and screwed it to it :) The case lid that is! Pulled the cover nice and tight and then sealed around it.

This store does have a gravel parking lot. Be interesting to see how the unit looks in another year, after completely sealing the case.

These units are what they breath. Thinking about building a filter rack of sorts if the problem continues??

hot rod

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J.C.A._3

HR,

For that to get into the bottom from the outside, wouldn't it have to go through the fan, blower housing AND the burner tube?

Looks to me like the condensate tube was "partially plugged" and not letting enough water out, but just enough to keep the pressure sensor satisfied. That, coupled with some scale and maybe something that crawled up the tube during the off season?(just guessing here cause the leaf looking bits kind of lead me to think thay way) Chris

hr

like forming diamonds

from coal My theroy is the dust gets injected into the hot moist HX area, and forms this coffee ground typre crud.

Where else would it come from. Pretty sure it wasn't in there when we installed it

The drain was free and clear until it sluged up judging by the way it "used up" the limestone de-neutralized chips I used. Also the condensate clear plastic lies on the floor and leads to a floor drain. Evidence of the brown streaks where the condensate has run around the strainer.

This Munch is up on an angle iron frame 3 feet above the floor and drain. A straight drop to the drain, and a plastic tee installed at the back of the Munch for overflow protection. Pretty sure the drain has been clear up until the lock out call.

Open for ideas?

hot rod

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Weezbo

Sir that no looky good.

Christmas i went on a no heat to one of tthe home we built last year that sold around the end of the season,...i took the cover off the Riello explained it had to be able to breath, dusted the thing out removed and cleaned the Filter(air) cleaned the dust off it replaced it. ran it up to temp, shut it down dusted the interior out with the paint brush vacummed that out ...about two table spoons of dust in all. if that scant bit of dust can lock out the fine tuned burner i can only see problems in the future with out some real barrier to the environmental make up air and the maint persons with a broom .........oh and id take the screw driver away from them too*~/:) that bent plate seems something more say than divine intervention unless attached to a flat bar.....*~/:)............................In a heavy humidity environment i have seen similar crunge build up...on the condensing drain you have a trap, vent and drip leg...what more could a guy do to keep it from working incorrectly? perhaps the combustion air is the culprit...extraneous bio + high humidity .Does it rain like heck around the place? is there say someone (cooling the building" with a hose ?

Glen

Any supporting evidence?

Fill in the blanks please - fuel type, pH of coffee grounds (although I won't be putting that through the machine in the morning), last combustion analysis report before incident, and current combustion analysis???? If the system is LPG - what are the gas pressures at the primary reg - secondary reg? Is there a mystery chemical stored where combustion air can drag in the fumes or dust? Attached photo is a VSB - about as dirty as I've seen - but no big bits to wonder about. This was in a pig barn - southern Alberta - dirty dusty and right now very cold.

Mark Eatherton1

THe problem...

is NEVER in the same room as the symptoms. If I were you, I'd look to the combustion air vent intake location. Something is kicking up a fine particle dust that's getting suck into the combustion process. I had a house on the prarie once that was completely surrounded by corn fields. Once a year, we'd get the no heat call and find the roll out switch at the burner tray activated, and the combustion chamber chocked full of soot. Finallydetermined that it was POLEN from the corn that was causing the problem. Installed air filters on the combustion air intake and never heard back from them. You may have to filter this one too. Also, 3M makes a really cool material called V Seal that is used for sealing the edge of doors. It will take care of any minor gappage,

ME

hr

I can fill in some blanks

yes to LP, 11" at boiler. Didn't think to check the ph of the sludge I suspect it would mimick the condensate fluid ph?

It was combustion checked and set with my Bacharach at installation, a year ago. I always leave a printout of the combustion analysis at the job.

I did have to adjust the secret "do not adjust" screw to get the CO2 on low fire into spec on this trip. Had the Munchkin folks on the cell phone talk me through this adjustment.

Nothing stored in the room but shovels and tools, a bunch of brooms.

Combustion air from thru the outside wall about 12" above the parking lot. Exhaust through the roof 2 feet above the intake. I like to separate the two this way to limit roof penetrations on metal roofs and assure I don't recycle exhaust gas. The intake is just below the roof eves.

Judging by the dust inside the case and in the fan impeller vanes, I really suspect it was sucking in the dust, around the case, when they sweep the floors near by. The PVC intake pipe was clean inside, but the inside of the case was covered in dust.

The building is owned by a Mennonite family, 12 brothers! and about 60 sibilings around all the time. They do a lot of sweeping for busy work. The place is spotless!

hot rod

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CDM2

CA Filter

What about using a combustion air filter, such as the accessory that was available for the now obsolete Lennox Complete Heat? This has a replaceable filter media, usually changed annually dependant on outdoor conditions.

I have the Lennox catalog numbers for thr complete unit as well as the replacement filter. (I am a former Lennox TM)This unit solved alot of dirty CA problems for the Complete Heat. You can email me for the numbers if you would want to try it out.

Dean

Guy_5

debris

Look carefully at the exhaust and intake air piping: Recirculation of exhaust gas will give similar results.
How do the gas valve and other aluminum components in the cabinet look? If they show signs of oxidation, and the gas pipe (within the cabinet) is rusty, there is a very strong chance of re-circulation.
Please let me know.
Guy Woollard
Heat Transfer Products
800-323-9651 Ext. 157

Glen

A few thoughts -

If the primary reg is set to a pressure greater than 10 psi - then some of the entrained oils and odourizers in the fuel can be carried with the gas - it can often precip out at the lower pressures - eg at the manifold or combustion area. I hear you re customer cleanliness - if they sweep often with a dust limiting product (Dustbane in Canada) which is petro based, you may have a wonderfull recipe for the equivalent of boiler hair balls. I would assume that combustion was excellent - heat being the great homogenizer that it is - the dust and LP are your main suspects. pH would be nice to know though. More importantly - can you reproduce the coffee grounds a second time?

Dale

Ammonia contamination?

We see some strange stuff when the tankers hauling LP are used to haul ammonia fertilizer in the off season and not cleaned properly. If this happened after the first fill of the season perhaps that could be part of the problem.