clean or not?

Unknown

Not more than 20 days ago I had a "FULL cleaning & service" done on this Buderus G115 with Riello BF3 & direct vent kit. The oil technician didn't give me a printout,,, "service department wouldn't approve funding" but he said and (documented) that I was running at "86.3% efficiency. Sack temp: 320º . CO2: 12.3%, Draft: 3 smoke: 0"

Look at the pictures.

This Filth can't be normal. I'm no expert on oil but judging by the degree of soot and debris within the combustion chamber, it looks like something is desperately wrong. It's only been about two weeks since the cleansing procedure was done!

Please advise.


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Weezbo

Gary that in deed is abnormal for a BF riello.

my buddy Fred and i just spent about a half hour thinking on this,he has the thought that cold fuel with no tiger loop would possibly go there................my thought is some thing like this it is being choked of outside air or picking a (suction)leak up somehow. the other thought would have locked it out it goes like this, the nozel gets a leak it comes back into the draw,the blower kicks in it fires black smoke fire fo a real brief time runs leaks ...thing is a tech would see the oil an so would the fire eye it would lock it out long before it got to looking that way...i think somethings choking it out,though ...

Unknown

ACK!!!

The fuel is not cold. It's stored in the basement way above 50ºF all year round.

It's certainly not being "choked of outside air" either. A full size 4" flex connects to OA terminal. The 1/4" screen is clean as that is one of the first things I did check out. Not sure of what you mean by "picking a (suction)leak up somehow."

Please keep going. i'm going to call the oil technician back tomorrow. What do I need to ask?

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Firedragon_4

Call and ask to speak to a supervisor,

if that doesn't do it call and ask to speak to a manager, if that doesn't do it , well...............

ed wallace

buderus

how can the tech have documented its effiency with out test instruments ???

Firedragon_4

It's called a

vivid imagination and learning from your peers!

Weezbo

i haven seen a buderas or riello with that problem....

if it was a common problem it would have been noticed by now.....i think the burner would be the least likeliest problem....we come back after a Year and no way is there a boiler looking like that. so, even if the tech didnt clean it .........i would have thought it was a choked flame and checked outside air first....a loose oil fitting ........frozen fuel or water might be an issue were it outside....

Steamhead

Gary, a modern well-tuned oil burner

will burn clean. Here's what I'd look at:

1- Is the boiler piped as Buderus says it should be piped? Including a bypass if they specify one?

2- What type of radiation does the system have? What is the usual water temperature in the system?

3- Does the burner have a "valve-on-delay" (oil is not fed to the nozzle until a few seconds after the motor is up to speed) feature? Lack of valve-on-delay can cause sooty start-ups even when running smoke levels are OK. If it does (and I think the Riello does) is it working properly?

4- Has the outside temperature dropped a lot since the tech was there? If so, he may not have left enough headroom to allow for colder air and oil (and the oil can be pretty cold coming out of the truck)- see Firedragon's "trace of zero" procedure for a more detailed explanation.

Just a few more fine teeth for your comb......

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lchmb

I think

I would invite him back, and sit and watch him brush the boiler down..I would also make sure he does a complete eff. test on the unit. Sound's like he is using a wet kit and although not the best it will work. Watch him run the complete test....Just my humble opinion....

Mark Hunt

I like that George!


Or maybe he read the literature on the boiler?!?!?!?

Mark H



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David_5

I had a similar situation

I started preventive maintenance on 2 boilers yesterday. The first heats the building and is a Weil-Mclain. The flue passages were clogged with scale. Wrong nozzle in burner. The second boiler was a New Yorker. It to had clogged flue passages and wrong nozzle. It was also missing 8 flue baffles. The oil solenoid on the Beckett burner was disconnected. I was so dirty that last night when I took a shower the water ran black when I washed my hair. There were no tags for any combustion tests. The previous company "cleaned" these boiler TWICE a year.
The fact is no one cleaned these boilers in a long time and the service performed was very poor.

David

Joe@buderus

What type of system is this? Radiant, baseboard, cast iron rads? What is the control strategy?
As suggested on Oil Tech Talk you may want to look at deluting the cold incoming air to help eliminate cold oil issues (I know the tank is inside. Next time it's cold put your hand on the fresh air intake pipe- WOW that's cold!!!)
Look forward to getting more information to help you.

Unknown

More info on this G115

I was curious as to how clean the technician left the HX a couple weeks ago so, I opened the door & this is what I see. I'm not sure if the technician brushed & vacuumed out the boiler or not. If he did, something is wrong. If not, he needs to come back & do it as I made it clear that I wanted a FULL service & cleaning done. I tried not to hover over him because I really hate it when customers do that to me. The service took nearly an hour.

The G115-3 boiler is fitted properly and only 5 years in service. Slant/Fin baseboard heat emitters are being used for the distribution system. about 80' of emitters split into 3-zones using Dan's near boiler piping methods. I used a Buderus HS2105 Ecomatic control with DHW priority. No system bypass is needed as this control utilizes a "pump logic" (delay feature) to prevent sustained flu-gas condensation. Can this still be called a "cold start" boiler? Me thinks so:)

The technician had test instruments. He just didn't have the printer attachment. He said that the analyzer is his own and the company won't even pay for him to get the printer. He simply transcribed his tester readings and printed them out for me from his service van's printer.

The fresh air intake pipe is run directly from the BF3 to outside air. The length is only about 4-5 feet. Yes the air is sometimes cold in New England. I'm not sure if I understand what a vacuum relief on the fresh air intake pipe would do? I have well enough make up air in this basement to use infiltration but, I thought with the BF kits we needed to have the intake and exhaust tubing of equal in lengths?

What exactly is that white & brown stuff inside the combustion chamber anyway?



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heatboy

At the risk of pissing someone off...........

If you can't service what you install, learn how or don't do the installs. It makes your life much more tolerable if you don't have to rely on other people.

clammy

Direct vent termation

The company i work for picked up a custermer with a i believe a slant fin direct vent kit which another oil co had been servicing which was constantly sooting up .I had gone and cleaned the unit completely ,smoke pipe and chk pump pressure, suction vacume and fuel flow also all the other usual stuff like ingition and oil delay valve after install the proper noz for the unit we haven't been back .I believe i would chk pump pressure and noz size could be over fired ? good luck and peace clammy

Mark Eatherton1

HEAR HEAR...

Happy New Years Jeff, retirement eh...

ME

Unknown

Jeff,

I rarely even install oil boilers. This is one of the very finite few that I have done. It was for my family. I've no desire to service oil burners. I've got enough to do. Shouldn't delegation of responsibility mean that I can be able to rely on other people for the work I don't want to do? Cleaning boilers is a dirty job and I'd be the one doing it.

The oil provider wants to do the service in most cases. They give you a better deal on their products if you sign on for their service plan. Now if they could only get it right.

I'd HATE to have to get up to speed on oil as that means I'd have to go back to school and get licensed as an oil burner tech in MA. It's not something I feel compelled to do. Plenty of good oil guys around here but, I shouldn't have to go out and find them. The oil company my family buys from said they would do it.

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Unknown

Where? Where?

Happy New Year Mark:-)

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Unknown

Where? Where?

As I recall, you don't work on oil burners either.

Happy New Year Mark:-)

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Mark Eatherton1

You are correct sir...

and that's why I don't mess with them... Happy Gnu Ears to you to:-)

Now, IF I were in YOUR situation, I WOULD learn how to work on them by myself, or I'd leave them alone.

JMHO.

ME

D Logan Ireland Oil Co Inc

Gary, The answer to your problem could be in the readout info he gave you.Look at the stack temp. In my experience a 320 stack temp is to low. Take out the two side baffles giving you a little better draft. Look for a stack temp between 370 and 390. That will stop the condensing factor in the chamber area.

Rookie

Oil Burner License

Wouldn't it be great if you needed a license to install heating equipment, never happen.In massachusetts you need a oil burner license to install and service oil burners and oil tanks, not boilers, so the oil company pulls a permit for you and away you go no license needed.In the propane or natural gas furnace and boilers no permit needed, only for the gas piping and storage tank, nothing for the furnace or boilers, anyone can put them in as long as the gas company pulls the permit, what a country.

Firedragon_4

I posted the answer to these questions

on:
OilTechTalk.com

These multi-postings can border on redundant!

Firedragon_4

Thanks Mark

back in 1987 I wrote in an article (in jest) that there 'were probably as many tests done in the front seat of the vans as in the basements'. Funny thing is I never got one piece of mail on that, hmmmmm??????????????

Rookie

Clammy

what was the problem with the set up on the Slant Fin was it the nozzle was wrong?Which type was the boiler, I have never been a big fan of the power vented boiler, what type of luck have you had with them?

clammy

slant fin

I believe it was a liberty it was acombination of things wrong noz,pump press.air setting and the boiler was not throughly clean that,s where it all begins if the boiler has tight section and pins like a slant fin it's easy for it to get so dirty that it a whole job to get her to not have back pressure esipically if the original plumbers didn,t give a though to cleaning or servicing the unit because they don,t service oil units !I,ve used tjerlund ss1 power vent kits a a few jobs and found them to be the best with a fan post and pre purge and a baffle to set your draft 2 manual safeties and a ul rating they only vent up to 150 ,000 btu have one in a friends home with a burnham 4 years not one promblem just clean the fans at the annaul cleaning and oil and your good to go .peace clammy

Rookie

Gary what's the Story? :-k

Well Gary what did you do ?, did the guy come back and clean the boiler again? What was the combustion results? Did he try to steal your helper?
Let's us know! =^D

Tkeny

bad combustion

Looks like he's not interested.

Rookie

I need Closure

I just want to close the book on this thread, it had potential, Oh well

Unknown

No closure yet Rocky

The service manager called me yesterday. He was suposed to get back to me today. So far no go. Typical.

Burner running poorly still;-)

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Rookie

Come on Gary

Don't take that tell the service manager you want his top Tech down there at 8:00 am tomorrow morning.
All right let me know when they decide to fit you in.