Price Increases

S Ebels

Same with Carrier, 6-9% as of Jan 1/05. That's a US company so it has nothing to do with the falling $$.$$. Carrier says "due to unprecedented increases in raw material prices yada yada yada..........".

Paul Pollets

Going Up

Just been notified that Viessmann will raise prices 8% as of 2/1/05. First time they've ever raised prices 2x in 1 year. With the dollar at an all time low against the Euro, it won't be long before we'll see some hefty boiler and DHWTank price increases, regardless where the equipment comes from.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ted_9

Lennox is up too. Everybodys going up. Its the new fad...

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ranger

I gett'um every day...(Mfg.Price increases)

....If it's got steel,aluminum,copper or PVC in it....it's going,going,going up,up,up....some raw materials went up as much as 110% in 2004.Coupled with the price of fuel...like the song says,you gotta pay.

Jim Armstrong

Being a wholesaler in Ohio, I have seen ALL products go up. Sheet metal and cast iron among the greatest. As a wholesaler I must report that it is with great disappointment that we must in turn raise our prices, we would love to absorb these increases but it is not possible.

I would only ask that when your local wholesaler announces an increase, remember it is out of our hands. Customer satisfaction and service are our main goals. It is with extreme resentment that we must burdon you, the customer, with increases.

Bear with us however, as prices go up, you can rest assured in knowing that the knowledge, entertainment and dedication by your counter persons is well worth the trip. Remember to support your local wholesaler!

Jed_2

Also working for a wholesaler

I don't know about yous guys, but I have been experiencing these price increases since the middle of Summer. At one point, one of our electrical suppliers was saying the quote you get now will no longer be good after we hang up. That was July or August, can't remember, it's been so dizzying. Oil tanks now go for the price of a complete package just three short months ago. I don't follow the dollar vs. the Euro, but on the world market, all these commodities and raw materials affect U.S. Mfg prices. Where do we go from here?

Jed

Darin Cook_3

PRICE GOUGING

Carrier has moved their manufacturing to China. Typically people who are whipped to produce, do not cost more than the AMERICAN worker to produce. Price increases are fabricated by Carrier. While their price has increased , quality has gone down. Viessman IDWH's cost about $1600.00 MORE than the same tank wearing another label, for no other reason than it is a Vie$$man. Another fabricated price increase. Don't be another SUCKER compare quality to cost, then make a informed decision. Certainly do not support the economy of a country who wants to get strong enough to lob some ICBM's against us.

S Ebels

Are you implying

Are you saying that Viessmann outsources their DHW tanks?

And that the identical tank is available for less $$ under a different label?

Inquiring minds want to know, A: if this is true and B: Where you got this information?

Thanks in advance for your reply

Jeff Lawrence_24

hiding your name?

I can't take anyone serious that hides their name.

Glycol Bob, if you are that scared of email spammers, put some spaces in your email address. That will confuse the SpamBots.

Put up or shut up.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Jeff Lawrence_24

increases

I have received 2 letters from wholesalers that their prices will be going up 1/01/2005 between 6 and 10%. I don't like it, but that's the cost of doing business.

I did notice the higher efficiency equipment costs are higher than the 'builder's grade'.



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

joel_19

wrong

Sorry there gylcol but you must be drinkin too much of your name sake. Viessmann tanks are biult in house by Viessmann , there are actually some folks here who have been to the plant and seen them made. what other companies tanks are the same with a different label?? The price increases are real transportation costs have gone through the roof, so has raw material costs. Goodman proudly wears the made in the USA label and I just was told thier going up as well.

marc

Viessmann

price increase, this is the first time they have raised 2 times in 1 year. everything else---- everything has had at least 2-3 increases this year. amtrol raises their prices weekly it seems like. its not about the price, its all about the quality. everyone can be the low bidder with cheap equipment, try Viessmann you like it.

Don_11

Price Increases

Prices are going up at an alarming rate. Most water heater companies announced an 18% increase for early 2005. A smart contractor, at this point, must evaluate your cost of an installation compared to your selling price. In the past when price increases were smaller (2-3% per year) it was not a big issue.
With manufacturers now going up 10-15% in the last 12 months, not to mention the outrageous increases in copper and steel pipe, you should take a hard look at your sellig prices to make sure you are making the margin you need. The contractor that does not raise his selling prices may not be in business long.

Darin Cook_3

What about the cost of fuel?

Gasoline is down some right now but if you did not compensate for fuel prices this year you must have taken a big hit on profits. We bid a job about 70 miles away and included about $3000.00 for fuel costs. We got the job. It is a 3000sq ft addition, a nice radiant plate job. The point is though, if we did not include that number for fuel, the profit numbers would have taken a serious tumble. The ole 6 litre GMC is thirsty and must be fed.






Darin

Constantin

Interesting...

China has had ICBMs since the 1970's. They don't have that many but it's their version of MAD for anyone willing to attack them with nukes.

See, I think you have it wrong, they're not going to kill us using nukes, they'll simply turn into a much larger economy and subsequently world power than us because they don't spend 30% of their government budget on defense. I expect China to outgrow us within my lifetime, unless a catastrophic event like the great leap backwards campaigns of yesteryear are allowed to rear their heads again.

To the best of my knowledge, Carrier still produces most of its ACs in the USA. A lot of components like the compressors, boards, etc. may come from elsewhere but I doubt that a voluminous, high-value appliance like a split-AC or package unit can be had cheaper on the US market if it was shipped very far. That's a lot of $$$ in inventory being tied up on slow boats and the US labor costs are but a small percentage of the total unit cost.

Oh, and as far as Viessmann is concerned, they seem to be quite happy to be upfront about what equipment they private label vs. what they make themselves. At least in my experience.

Please adjust your attempts of trolling for flamebait accordingly.

Mark Hunt

AND........


all the eggrolls you can eat!!!

Don't let Glycol Bob get you going.

He suffers from Chronic CO poisoning.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Darin Cook_3

TRUTH HURTS

I cannot due to who employs me, divulge my true identity. But lets say it is one of the largest producers of furnaces in the world. Constantin, if you would care to leave Mass and take a ride out to Syracuse, you would see what the truth is. It is a ghost town here. I know it is hard to see peering out of your little engineer cubicle. As far as Vie$$man goes, Yeah, the Germans have always been so forthcoming with the truth. UN Food for Oil scandal.

Murph'_5

Bob, I believe some of your puissant knowledge has been questioned by the non-believers. And some folks who don't give a crap about this country, although flags are being waived to create a diversion for self-indulgent needs. Please share.



Murph'

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

John McArthur_2

Price increases

I thought I may chime in here as well... Price increases have been coming along steadily since the latter part of 2003. There have been certain products that the increases have been noticeable and some products only slight changes. What is going on now is that the expectation that the "market would get back to normal" has not happened. Manufacturers and Wholesalers are now trying to project the coming increases. I have heard that Nibco has announced three planned increases for 2005.
This in itself is causing many problems beyond the manufacturer. Beginning with the wholesaler. In the past the wholesaler has absorbed some of the increase for fear of being overpriced and overshopped to other wholesalers. They responded by "leaning up". The contractor responded by absorbing the increases that were noticed, for fear of losing that job to the guy down the street. They responded by becoming more consious of products that will put them ahead of the next guy down the street.
While both of these actions or reactions were and are noble, be prepared because with the coming 2005, nobility and knowledge alone will not pay the bills. The increases on items such as water heaters at 18%, Oil Tanks, which have had three inctreases since August, will shake a lot of trees.
Please don't take this next statement as an insult, as I am only trying to add value to the Wall. I believe that anyone in the trades should take the time and energies to get educated by a business consultant, even if it is a refresher course. The labor rates that applied to 2003 will not even come close to helping you or I pay the bills. The hopes would be that if we all stuck together the fear of raising our rates would not be so terrifying.

John R. Hall

Trucking issues

Don't forget that prices are also affected by new trucking laws requiring drivers to spend less time behind the wheel. Although the immediate impact is delivery time, it will also affect availability. And we all know what happens during supply and demand.

Mad Dog

EVERYTHING IS UP!!!!!!!!

Including comp and liability ins. Those who do not raise their selling prices will be the big losers this year. I want to be a winner this year. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mad Dog

I don't know if that is true, but I do have to agree

on the China comments. We are enriching our enemy. They still make garbage to boot. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mad Dog

Can you imagine if you had itemized that in the quote????

They would've cried. Did that cover the fuel cost? Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mad Dog

Sorry Constantin, but China is not the playful giant

that you would have us think. They are a brutal Communist dictatorship that comes down like an A-Bomb on ANY political discord. The hardy Chinese people have no free press and no true civil or political rights. I have very mixed feelings about their future. I do hope that Capitalism does transform them, but let someone else (French , Germans, rest of the world) buy their poor-quality junk. Remember Tianemen Square and Cardinal Kung!!!!!! Mad Dog

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Macroeconomics

A great deal of price increases can be traced directly to health care in this country. Neither individuals nor government can continue to deal with annual double-digit cost increases. We spend more than twice as much per capita as most? all? other developed countries yet it does not directly translate to either a healthier population or better quality of life for the terminal. All levels of government are now paying more than half of all medical expense yet providers claim that the government gives inadequate compensation.

The CEO of a pharmaceutical distribution company just bought the most expensive house in New York state. Were he from Central America we'd have him on a "most wanted" list as a "drug lord".

We've built a health care system based on waste, fraud, abuse and corruption. Such permeates every level of the system--both privately and within the government.

Solutions exist, but they won't be painless and a LOT of people will make a LOT less money. "Socialized" medicine is NOT the only route--it's just the way we're currently headed.

Glen

I agree -

My largest supplier has notified their customers of most of the price increases - by what company and on what date they will happen. Some are double digit increases. Our liability insurance went up 88% this year - that's without any claims - thankfully - comp went down 1.63%. Add to that 90 cents a liter for fuel - well you get the idea. A loss on every job can not be made up with volume - price increases are a necessary part of this business. The question of "what is fair?" depends on your area (urban or rural), trades supply and demographics of the area. My best answer would be "it depends!" Our firm wants to be a winner next year as well - it's the only we can provide first class service - supporting first class customers.

Mark Eatherton1

Cause for new Clause...

on our contracts. "Hyper Inflationary clause" Unless client is willing to pay for all materials up front in cash, and store said materials at their expense, we cannot guarantee material pricing. If material costs increase between the time of contract signage, and actual ordering/delivering of material, customer agrees to pay our direct cost increase with no profit margin attached.

Some of the jobs we work on go on for YEARS...

It's REAL tough out there being in business today.

Why should WE eat the material cost increases??

ME

Constantin

Where did I say that they were a playful giant?

As best as I can tell, the US hegemony will be challenged in my lifetime by a nation that does not share the same democratic traditions as the US. This is quite troubling.

Like in any nation, people, etc. there are elements of evil in society. Totalitarian regimes like the one in China are the perfect breeding ground for "enabling" these sorts of people, with predicatable results (cultural revolution, Tianamen square massacre, clamp-down on Falung-Gong, etc.) The Nazi concentration camps were also exclusively staffed by volunteers.

Lest we forget, it was the Chinese that armed the Pakistanis with Nukes and the missles to deliver them. The Pakistanis under the guidance of Khan then turned their nuclear assets into an arms bazaar that was smuggled far and wide. Now, a number of what can only be called as unstable third world governments have the capability to quickly evaporate their neighbors...

On the other hand, regional governments in the far east are increasingly turning to China as the regional hegemon because at least the Chinese are predictable.

Constantin

Fascinating...

I'm sorry to hear that Syracruse is a ghost town. However, it is my belief that a properly run American company can compete with just about anyone.

As a consultant, I traveled across this great land many a time. For example I helped Sub-Zero build a 300,000 ft² manufacturing facility, did improvements at other people's facilities, etc. Plus, I developed new appliances, set minimum energy standards for washers, AC's, and water heaters, etc. Perhaps I've seen more of this country and worked in more industries than you have?

Not everyone works in an industry that competes principally on the basis of price... Germany is a much-higher priced manufacturing environment than the US, yet 50% of their GDP is exports-based. If they can compete with the rest of the world, why can't the US? For that matter, what does Viessmann have to do with the UN oil-for-food program?

Lastly, does the Oil for food scandal compare to the constantly-changing justifications for the invasion of Iraq, considering that it posed no "imminent threat" to the US, that they did not have any WMDs after the 1991 war, etc? Which scandal cost more lives, destroyed more property, and will result in a bigger national debt that you, and I and our grandchildren will pay for, with interest?

Mad Dog

Awwww right boys......we are getting too political again

Let's not go down that road again....c'mon I'm still nursing a hangover. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

Yup, you're right.

However, if we're going to hold Ted the Viessmann rep's feet to the fire for suggesting the use of a Vitodens in a "Munchkin Problem" thread, then someone like Bob that allegedly works for a competitor to Viessmann should not slander them either. Peace.

Mark Hunt

Constantin


I think you're giving too much clout to Bob's posts.

Do you REALLY believe he works for a major manufacturer?

He is a troll that has nearly accomplished what he intends to do EVERY time he pops up here.

I called Ted the Viessmann rep out, and I would do the same to ANY rep that tries to promote their product by slamming another (as long as I can prove it). Ted has since made sure to identify himself in subsequent posts. Kudos to Ted.

I do not for one second believe that Glycol Bob is a rep for a major manufacturer. Most of the big players that come here identify themselves, Burnham, Buderus, Slant-Fin, HTP, etc....... none of them jump into posts about other manufacturers equipment. But "Bob" started posting a while back and as far as I can remember, his posts have been aimed at stirring the pot.

"For every action there is an equal, opposite reaction."

Applies to everything in our physical world, including opinions.

Mark H





To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Jeff Lawrence_24

Amen, Brother Mark.

N/M

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Leo G_99

Here in vancouver

some of the major players are talking about shutting down half of the projects in the city's core. Right now, I have never seen so many Hammerheads lifting buildings to the sky. It seems that these players want to reduce the demand to get a glut of labour back into the market, so that they can once again play the subs against each other.

I doubt it will work as there is such a demand for the trades in so many areas right now, I forsee the labour just moving out to the next city/town that will employ them. Then these players will really be singing the blues!

Leo G

Leo G_99

Hey MD

the other thing that we are trying to get up is our production. A small way to keep some of the profit in our hands!

Leo G