Hammer! Hammer! Hammer????

Jamie_6

We seem to have some problems with the following install and water-hammer. So far we have changed the lower "cross-over" from the wet return from a 12" nipple to a street 90. This did change the frequency of the hammer. (Although I am quite confused because I though at this location that pipe is always under water)

After we made this change the boiler ran without a sound for about three days. Then it started making a hammering noise in the 6” nipple in the false water line! The sight glass is surging about 3” and does have a slight film on the top of the water line. Would all this be do to a dirty boiler? Or is that other 6” nipple too long?

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Jamie


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eleft_4

Jamie,



I don't much about steam other than the cutting oil and other goop in the pipes can be the cause of hammer.

You guy's are amazing ...nice neat stuff.. say hello to your Dad.

al

gehring_3

Shouldn't the inverted "U" in the false water line be made with a close nipple?

Also, is the Hartford Loop the correct distance below the NWL?

Jamie_6

That's the only other thing I could come up with! I haven't read anywhere a dimension for that distance but if you think like water I guess that would be a problem area! But why would it take a few days for it to hammer?

Also, the way the picture was taken the hartford looks like it is too high. Not to worry though it is designed per manufactures instructions.

Thanks for the input,

Jamie

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[Deleted User]

skim the boiler

the boiler water level, should not be moving. Also must be clean, no film. THis could be the cause of the hammer.

Steamhead

> We seem to have some problems with the

> following install and water-hammer. So far we

> have changed the lower "cross-over" from the wet

> return from a 12" nipple to a street 90. This

> did change the frequency of the hammer. (Although

> I am quite confused because I though at this

> location that pipe is always under water)

> After we made this change the boiler ran without

> a sound for about three days. Then it started

> making a hammering noise in the 6” nipple in the

> false water line! The sight glass is surging

> about 3” and does have a slight film on the top

> of the water line. Would all this be do to a

> dirty boiler? Or is that other 6” nipple too

> long?

>

> Any help is greatly

> appreciated,

>

> Jamie

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 289&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_





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Steamhead

Clean it

If it ran without problems, got dirty and started banging, clean it. Flush the system as well as the boiler. We all know how dirt works its way from an old system into a new boiler.

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Wes_2

??\"Normal\" Water line

Hi,homeowner here with some questions about the water line in the gague glass: I have also heard that the water line should only move about a half to three-quarters of an inch while the boiler is firing. BUT in the "Lost Art" on page 200 Dan says the following 'You see, the water line is supposed to move up and down. The only time the "normal" water line is normal is when the boiler is off and cold. During operation, the level will move between "normal" and a point just about two-to-three inches below "normal" '

Would it be correct to interpret this to mean that the water line should only move around a fraction of an inch from moment to moment (due to surging) AND as steam is made, its OK for the water line to drop down gradually until the condensate returns? This seems logical to me if true.

The problem we have now is that the water in the gague glass is jumping around alot and while the bouncing never raises the level above "normal", it does bounce down as low as +/- 3 inches below normal. Could this be attributable solely to oil and/or crud on the waters surface or could it be caused by some type of a vacuum effect? On page 223 of Lost Art Dan describes a scenario where "you'll get a vacuum in the boiler while there is still pressure in the system. As the vacuum [] forms, the "A" Dimension at the end of the system can push down" causing a momentary rise and drop in the water level "Depending on the placement of the close nipple on the Hartford Loop, this surging can push steam into the near boiler return piping" and create hammer. Any thoughts? Thanks! Wes

Wes_2

Steam Cleaning

Homeowner here to say, fist of all, that Jamie has been great to work with and I'm sure his dogged determination will pay off. Jamie also hasn't been slacking on the cleaning. I think he has skimmed 2 or 3 times so far and the gague glass is certainly cleaner and without any condensate as before. There is however, still a thin film with some rusty sediment - is it even possible to get to a perfectly clean surface?
I listed some other questions below
Thanks everyone
Wes

Steamhead

You're right

it gets lower as steam is generated and water hasn't cone back yet. But it shouldn't bounce that much. Each time Jamie cleans it, it leaves room for more crud to work its way into the boiler. Just keep cleaning it and eventually it will settle down. How long this takes depends on the amount of dirt!

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Wes_2

hammering

Thanks Steamhead. I hope thats it. Cleaning is certainly easier than changing out pipes.

I just came from the cellar where i was trying to see if there is a relationship between the water level and the hammering. I need to be more scientific next time (and use a ruler) but what I just saw is: when the water in the gague glass drops down ~3.5" below 'normal'and stays there for about 5 seconds -the hammering starts in the false water line piping - and sometimes a little puff of air rushes form the FWL vent. Upstairs the hammering is sometimes accompanied by a panting (breating in and out)of the radiator vents.

Its been so dern warm that the boiler rarely runs during the day when we're home. It only really likes to go at 4am when it can wake everyone up!

I'll post more after a more lengthy observation
Wes

Wes_2

> Thanks Steamhead. I hope thats it. Cleaning is

> certainly easier than changing out pipes.

>

> I

> just came from the cellar where i was trying to

> see if there is a relationship between the water

> level and the hammering. I need to be more

> scientific next time (and use a ruler) but what I

> just saw is: when the water in the gague glass

> drops down ~3.5" below 'normal'and stays there

> for about 5 seconds -the hammering starts in the

> false water line piping - and sometimes a little

> puff of air rushes form the FWL vent. Upstairs

> the hammering is sometimes accompanied by a

> panting (breating in and out)of the radiator

> vents.

>

> Its been so dern warm that the boiler

> rarely runs during the day when we're home. It

> only really likes to go at 4am when it can wake

> everyone up!

>

> I'll post more after a more

> lengthy observation Wes

Jamie_6

Looks like we got more skimmimg to do Wes!

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Mark Hunt

Jamie


Try some Hydro-solve from Rhomar water.

We re-piped a boiler recently that had been done in copper. The installation company never skimmed it and all the flux came back into the boiler. I have never seen a boiler surge like this one did.

We used Hydro-solve and let the boiler run for a few days. Then we went back and draind the boiler, re-filled it, skimmed it again, and decided to run it for a while longer with more hydro-solve. Even after the first cleaning the system quieted right down. I just wanted to make sure we got all of the flux off of the boiler sections.



Mark H

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