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Blueray in a closet

who thought installing a Blueray boiler in any type of home was a good idea . This is the hallway to the boiler room . Just enough space to pull the old boiler out .
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Comments

  • And here's what we found

    Pipes everywhere . 2 original zones , a Phase 3 in the next room , and a primitive water softening system next to the indirect . The 2nd pic is of a very short monoflow zone for 2 convectors . Why bother ? We cut that all out and looped the convectors .

    This was one of the worst ripouts I've ever done . And on a Friday . And in the rain .
  • We replaced it with

    a Burnham RSA110 . We also disconnected the water softener for the homeowner and installed a new water main valve . To prioritize the indirect we used a Taco 3 zone relay . Sorry about the angle of the pics , my back was to a wall , literally .

    A note to Burnham . Please , in the literature that comes with the boiler , include a phone number for the homeowner in case they have questions . For instance , today the lady of the house was VERY concerned about the smell from the chamber breaking in . No matter how much we reassured her it was temporary , she did not believe us .
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    That there

    Is a nice looking system..:o How do you guy's find these thing's??? I have seen butchered Blueray's but that take's the cake...Firedragon was looking for pic's like that..May want to send it to him..:) Nice job on the Burnham. Look's 110% better and much easier to service...Excellent per the norm!!!!
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
    Ron...

    where's the indirect? They had plenty of room in there for that too....what a mess..nice clean up. How did you manage to support the extrol? And is there anything ever worth saving on some of theses jobs? parts that is... kpc

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  • Lchmb

    I think these things find us . The sad part about this whole fiasco , and all these style homes is the garage is the wall behind the boiler . It could have been turned around and kept wide open to work on from the other direction . Thanks alot for the compliment Lchmb .
  • It won't be the first time

    someone promised a homeowner that we could fit a boiler and indirect in a space that small . The Extrol is piped into the run of the last black tee for the last pump . We used a 1 1/4 by 3/4 bushing , a 3/4 street , a 3/4 by 8 , a 3/4 by 1/2 coupling , a 1/2 by 8 and a 1/2 coup . Sounds real crazy but we had no choice short of breaking apart the header .

    The pump for the indirect and the relay were from 1997 . Everything else was junk . Our parts guy sends all the salvagable parts to Sid Harvey to be rebuilt . One man's trash is another's treasure . Thanks alot Kevin .
  • ohmyhead-ken
    ohmyhead-ken Member Posts: 3
    blueray

    Another fantastic friday job! Booyah!
  • There's Kenny

    my partner for this job . He's the guy who gets these great Friday installs along with me .
  • Ken D.
    Ken D. Member Posts: 836
    Blueray

    Ron, Nice job again. Another BR bites the dust! I will say a prayer and sprinkle holy water for it.
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    Man oh man!!!

    I have no idea why you don't have a TV crew with you when you do these miracle one day closet jobs that come out looking like it was 100% pre-planned and you had all the time of a jeweller judging by the soldering.


    It would make for some great HVAC TV content! Mind you, they'd probably have to use those little tiny remote cameras to actually get in that same space with you two.


    What better thing for kids and HVAC junkies to watch on Saturday mornings?
  • Bruce M.
    Bruce M. Member Posts: 143
    Blueray

    Hi Ron. Was it still a blue flame Blueray or was it converted. I went to Blueray school many years ago and I found out the reason people had trouble with them. I had a Blueray in my mothers house and it ran fine. The secret to it was two things. The right Monarch CC nozzle and settings the electrodes by the book. If you did that and had a good oil filter it worked great. Nice install as usual. And yes, I remeber meenan was a big Blueray installer at one time.
  • todd s
    todd s Member Posts: 212
    As usual great job

    I see you got the ifc pumps, now if you could get the webstone flanges. What we have done is just use an iso flange on the house side, that would save a bit of time rather than 3 seat connections above each pump. How did the air vent work on the rs? We pipe the V8 that way and have had no air issues that I know of. Is the rs quieter than the v8? I bet it burns great with the riello, if that was on warm start you mave never have to clean it.
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    NO kidding...

    Ron, I'm going to start using your installs as a benchmark for my employees. How many guys did you have doing this one day, shoe horn miracle?

    Fanstastic job.

    ME
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    As usual, a phenomenal job...

    I don't know how you do installs like this in a day, but I imagine you must do really well whenever there is a limbo contest!

    As a ignorant homeowner, I look at the before and the after and have to ask: How were/will they be cleaned? The Blueray had all sorts of stuff attached to it, making a take-apart operation impossible, it seems. The Burnham isn't as encumbered, but how do you get the soot out?

    Lastly, do you suppose the smell came from the small temp/O2/CO2 hole you have in the flue? In the picture above, it's still uncovered. Just a thought, because most likely, that thing was covered before you left. Cheers and Congrats!
  • Working on the ISO flanges

    Yeah , I would install just one above each pump , beats sweating in a valve . The air vent worked fantastic . No need for fancy air elimination with a basic baseboard zone with just 2 convectors and an indirect . Besides , where would an airscoop fit in there ? Oh yeah , there was one on the old boiler . We used an F3 and it was quieter than the Blueray , the homeowner told us . Thanks alot Todd .
  • Limbo ? Me ?

    Nothing quite bends right on my screwed up body anymore . The only way I'd get under the limbo bar is on a stretcher .

    I left enough room to get to the top of the Burnham . Not alot , but enough for our servicemen who are used to tight spots . But this boiler / burner combo is fantastic . It'll be years before a vac is needed .

    We put a coil bolt in the sensor hole when were done with the tests . The smell is from the chamber breaking in , I think Glenn said it is the corn starch that binds the chamber together burning away . It literally brings tears to your eyes .

    Thanks again Constantin , I appreciate your observations . When are we going to see some progress pics of your new heating system ?
  • I haven't seen a Blueflame yet

    I hear from the guys that we converted all of them to Beckett or Carlin within a year of install . The way you describe the setup , it sounds like a very finicky burner . What was the positive side of using the Blue Flame , compared to a regular gun ?

    Yes , we have thousands out there , almost every one of em leak in the same place . Blueray is keeping us real busy . Thanks Bruce .
  • While you're at it

    can you sprinkle some on me too ? Thank you Ken .
  • Can't have any filming

    The homeowner had a cool attitude and salty language , so we let our hair down , so to speak . If we were filmed , there woulda been no one left unoffended who watched the tape .

    That is a great idea . Just set up a camera to the side and let it go . I'll see if Kenny will bring in his digital camcorder . Thanks alot Uni R .
  • Ron

    I'm not entirely sure why but there is no phone number in the manual. I will address this this week during a meeting to see if it is doable. The refractory burnoff has not been an issue that I have heard brought up before. It was with the gas boilers for many years. The combustion chamber material in the gas boilers used to have a Corn Starch binder that smoked and gave off a stench during startup. We did address this in the gas manuals and stated very clearly that it was nothing that would harm anyone. We have changed types of insulation board in those boilers now and it no longer needs the corn starch binder so the issue is now gone with the gas boilers. I will also bring this up with our engineering folks. Thanks!

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Training

    Burnham Hydronics

    www.burnham.com
  • This one was just me and ohmyhead ken

    Phil and Danny came by and took all the metal and garbage for us , a big plus .

    That is a great compliment Mark . But don't push em too hard . They'll burn out at 35 , like I'm doing right now . I'm finding out real slow that there's more to life than just boilers . Thank you very much Mark .
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Particulalry if..

    ... you take pictures only every other second, so that the end product runs 30x faster than real life! How to compress a 8-hour install into 16 minutes!
  • LIBOB
    LIBOB Member Posts: 23
    Blueflames

    Nice job. At least they put isolation valves on the old system. I worked for a oil co. that put a bunch of blueflames in a certain development and they shoved them in a corner. Real problem when you cant take that back panel off. They had to be cleaned really good to run smooth. It was a little easier to convert them if you had access to the back. Sorry I was drifting off into some bad memories. BLUEFLAMES CANT SAY I'LL MISS THEM. Again nice work. A serviceman will smile when he opens that door.
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    I get it now...

    You're trying to hold out for a contract with HBO or PPV and forget the young aspiring Saturday morning wetheads! Even better! hehehe


    BTW, it's all in the editing. The editing would take a huge multiple of time compared to the actual install but I there's a real audience just in here.


    Keep up the great work!
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Nice work Ron,

    I'm with LIBOB on this one....The only good BlueRay is a dead BlueRay! Saw WAY too many back in the day, and don't miss them a bit. Now if we could work on getting rid of some of the Hydrotherms and Repcos we'd be on to some real work. Chris
  • Bruce M.
    Bruce M. Member Posts: 143
    Blueflame Conversions

    Ron, I had my mother's BR as a blueflame until about 4 years ago. It was very efficient as a blueflame, ran at 86%. Once I converted it to a yellow flame it was never the same. It was a burner that did not tolerate inaccurate settings or bad nozzles. It was a great idea but in the real world of "close enough" it was not meant to succeed. I sort of remember that Meenan had a stake in the company and they were the biggest installer in LI.
  • Mellow_2
    Mellow_2 Member Posts: 204
    The instructions say 18\" above boiler

    to clean the flues. They also say to clean them every year. Do the servicemen at your co. not vac at every cleaning? If they do not I can see why...... I would not want to burn myself on the circs trying to pull out the baffles (that are stuck in the boiler because it was not cleaned every year) and then try not to hurt the chamber brushing it out. The circs could have been raised and you could get around the boiler and clean it easyer. The boiler is only as good as the install. I see soot all over the circs in five years and the top all bent up from trying to remove it. Unless they do not clean it then it will burn out the back in ten. (backpreasure) will kill steal boilers. You do clean work but mybe you should do some cleanings for awile and find some ways to improve or ask the guys you work with.
  • Will our serviceman vac

    a boiler that does not need it ? Every year ? You are kidding , right ?

    This issue of having no room to clean the boiler is a moot point . My 250 pound frame was able to install the fluepipe with no problem , after the piping and burner were in . Getting to the baffles will be tricky for someone like you I guess , but we have experienced servicemen who can handle work like this .

    Do you install boilers for a living , stupid ? Do you understnd what has to be done to put a boiler in a closet , in a limited amount of time , stupid ? Sorry , but I don't have the obvious skill of someone such as yourself , to take into account every eventuality in a closet job . Show me a few pics of your perfect installs stupid , so I can learn from my mistakes . Maybe I might armchair quarterback your work also .

    Hey stupid , be a man and post a real name and email .
  • Glenn , we have been

    getting a mix of old and new stock RSA boilers . You can tell the new stock because the bottom steel plate sticks out a little further than the older model . I'm not sure which one this was , but the older stock seems to be the ones that have the smell .

    It burnt off in less than an hour , but the lady of the home was the nervous type . I'm guessing she thought we were giving her a line just so we could beat feet out of there . Having a phone number to call and stating the burnoff smell is normal in the literature would make my life a bit more rosy . Thanks alot Glenn for the help .
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
    is this constuctive??????

    nto really the spirit we are used to here......kpc

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  • Mellow_2
    Mellow_2 Member Posts: 204
    NOT KIDDING

    "This issue of having no room to clean the boiler is a moot point " (ron jr) How many companys have people who only clean or service or install. If you work in this field you should know how to do it all. If you just clean boilers then you can't realy fix them you will never learn and if just you install them without leaving room to clean them they will never get cleaned. If an installer can't see a way to clean a boiler than what do you think the "cleaners" are going to do (not clean it). They can't even install a boiler.....or can they? You might think they have speacal powers but I know they are just human. Better to plan for the worst by alowing room to clean.(way to pass the buck)

    I am still learning but one of the first things I learned was to make it cleanable. The instructions say every year you MUST vac. I vac every year and you can see a positive differance in how the boilers run. the pics I have but would be really stupid to post at this time because you would just pick on anything and everything. Ten years in the field and four years in trade school. Yes I have installed boilers and some before I knew how to. I look back and wish someone told me the right way to install but I had to learn the hard way. I know how hard it is to get a boiler in fast but if this was a fast job why show pics of it? I have installed in closets and alot of it is preperation. Like the man in dans book that drilled all the holes in a new house, put the drill away and didn't need it again. He knew what he had to do before he did it.



    PS we have people fighting right now for our freedom of speach and I support that and try to use it. Every thing here is constructive and we should not stop talking. If it is rude or negative so be it! I want honest coments on facts about installs (not opinions) but TRUTH! something that is backedup by evedence hopefully.
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Nice work Ron

    As always.

    Maybe your friend who dos'nt want to post his name should try working for a company that ask for the impossible and continually gets it. You work in less than perfect conditions and yet continually give a excellant install. Great Job.

    Hey I think if you did a vidio it would have wind up being silent, after all the editing :)

    That being said ...I think its Great Idea !!! HVACtv needs to film one of your installs. I am sure you can find a customer who will be more than willing to see his install on vidio. I can't imagine a better confidence builder.

    Scott

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  • Dale
    Dale Member Posts: 1,317
    Planning

    Another great job Ron. As I have said before what impresses me most about your work is that you don't have any preplan time, you look at it and start putting it together correctly. Seems like everyday is a prototype. I bet you seldom recut a pipe or move a component. I know of course that you do the planning as you are setting the new boiler and looking at the old stuff as it comes out. Still, your's aren't the new subdivisions where once you get one nice all the rest are the same. Your boss would probably make more $ in the long run keeping you healthy by having you stand there and tell the apprentices what to thread together, you could hand the parts into the closet. My old boss said the real value of an employee wasn't in what they did by rather what they knew.
  • Try reading my post thoroughly

    before going on your rants , whoever you are . Everything in life can't be easy . We struck a balance between total accesibility and a need to be done in a timely manner . I do not service equipment , except my own home . I would not have any problem servicing this boiler . And I know our service department would NOT HAVE A PROBLEM either . I now understand that you must be used to wide open areas to service equipment . Well , no name , let me introduce you to Long Island . One of the most heavily populated areas in the world . Where most of the heating equipment is in an area this size or SMALLER . Where the servicemen will walk on a job such as this , and be GLAD they have some room to work . Of course they will pop the top and look at the baffles . If it is warranted they will vac the boiler . If there is no buildup , they will not vac . Or are you suggesting they vacuum out accumulation that is not there ?

    I do not as a habit pick on anyone that has the fortitude to post their work on this forum . I do try to give helpful hints that work for me in the field , and compliment the work that catches my eye . Of course I see places where I could've done better , if I had the prep time you seem to think is in abundance . And why I post pics of rush jobs is my own business . We can both agree that my work does not come close to the beautiful installs we see regularly showcased here . But I think we do the best that can be done in limited time ( and be serviceman friendly ) .


    I agree with you , whoever you are , that we should never stop talking , critiquing , helping out - as long as it is constructive . And no , it is not OK to be rude or negative to get your point across , but if that's the only way you can do it , I cannot stop you .

    Honest comments on facts about installs should start by having and honest name and email , don't you think ?
  • We do cheat a little

    This particular job had a Polaroid attached to the paperwork , so we were able to have a basic idea of what was there . And we picked out alot of the parts beforehand . All those extra pipes still caught us by suprise though . Alot of the pipe I cut long and sweat in place , then recut to the exact size . You can tell I was on a job when there's a few dozen pieces of copper laying around , about an inch long or less .

    Kenny is real good and I coulda let him pipe out the whole system . But I gotta keep moving on the job or I go stir crazy . Better to let Kenny go nuts .

    Thank you very much Dale .
  • I think my new friend

    might be used to working in unconfined spaces . Hell , I could get used to it too . Contrary to what no name said , I do like to hear constructive criticism . He is right , I wish I could have given the service crew more room to work . What I did not appreciate is the snide remarks in the post - making it seem like I could care less if theres room to vac this boiler . Nothing could be further from the truth . Oh well , time to move on .

    The video idea sounds real good . Kenny is going to be replacing his boiler under the stairs pretty soon , and I'm obliged to help out . I'll see if he can prop the camcorder somewhere to film the install . Thanks alot Scott for the kind words .
  • I didn't know

    you had to get to the back to clean the thoroughly . To be honest , I've never seen one stripped down .

    For some reason we usually have to take these out of homes with a small landing at the bottom of the stairs . Without fail we have to build a platform to turn the boiler at the base of the stairs . Something I really hate to do . The designers of this boiler did not take into account the bulkiness , and how hard it is to maneuver . They made the 2 rods on the bottom exactly 24 inches apart - the exact width of a handtruck plate . The slightest movement on the boiler and it slips crooked on the handtruck . What were they thinking ?

    Thanks alot LIBOB and Chris .
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,162
    Lookin good

    Lookin good ron i don,t care what they say it's a awesome feat first to fit it all in and foremost to get it all done in a day hats off to you and kenny excellent teamwork keep up the out standing work and have a great and safe holiday peace clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • Ken D.
    Ken D. Member Posts: 836
    Ron

    Amen, Brother!
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    A stupid - Man

    Ron,

    When you post pictures of your work, you are putting it out for ALL to see. You post them with YOUR name on them. You accept all comments and critisisms. I know your are proud of your work, but also willing to learn from anyone. This shows alot about your character.

    It too bad that someone could come here, make comments about the qulaity of someones work and yet not have the cahones to print thier name.

    Anyone can slander and hide. Anyone can claim reasons for not wanting to put thier name to thier comments. Most MEN don't.

    Right now their are people dying for the right to freedom of speech and they are fighting people who hide.

    Scott

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