steam in returns - I think I have the fix

Thad English

I think that I am correct in my diagnosis below but want some pros' opinions before I spend a bunch of dough:

The steam system in question is a 2-pipe air vent system. According to "The Lost Art," the returns should be piped directly into the wet return in the basement. In my system the returns come down and connect with the drip legs from the steam risers at a point that is about 36" above the wet return and about 8" above the water line. The drip legs connect to the wet return on the basement floor. There are also flow check valves on every return pipe that are installed to not allow anything to go 'up' the return pipe. The boiler was replaced about 4 years ago by some knucklehead and Jamie Pompetti redid all the near boiler piping for us last Feb. The issue that I am having is steam getting into the returns (causing a bit of hammer near the end of the cycle) and not necessarily getting to the rads on the second and third floors in a timely manner. My theory is that since the old boiler's water line was above where the returns connect to the drip leg, steam was never able to make it into the returns. Now that the water line is much lower, steam is free to get into the returns. I think that the fix is to lower that connection point to somewhere below the current water line.


Another option just occured to me: will the flow checks stop air and/or steam or are they designed to work only with water? if they would work with air, maybe all I need to do is to replace the guts on them or clean them up?

What are folks' thoughts, nuggets of knowledge, pearls of wisdom, yada yada yada?

Thanks in advance,

Thad

Robert O'Connor_7

Why not...

Have Jamie return and go over a solution...Robert O'Connor/NJ

Thad English

I am planning on calling Jamie, but I wanted to make sure that what I wanted to do was the right thing before I took up his time. I am sure that he and his dad have a full plate of installs so if I can do a bunch of the legwork then he can get in and get out of my small job quickly.

Steamhead

Have Jamie install a False Water Line

to raise the water level back to where it was with the old boiler. This will seal all the drips and should help correct the steam-distribution problems.

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Thad English

thx

Thank you very much, Steamhead.

Thad English

FWL

Steamhead,

Thanks for the advice on the false water line. I read up on the FWL and, unfortunately, I don't think that we can do it. In The Lost Art, it says we can do the FWL if there are at least 28" between the top of the inverted U seal and the lowest horizontal steam carrying pipes. In my basement the connection point of the returns to the drips is only 26" down from the lowest horizontal steam carrying pipe (which is the end of the main in this case).
And I think I understand why this system has all those checks on the returns and drips: whoever put in the old boiler put it in with the water line way too high. It cut the "A" dimension to less than 28" and the water was just backing out of the boiler. The checks were someone's idea of a fix.
Story of my life: so close and yet so far. I think we'll have to repipe those returns and drip legs together at a point below the current water line. Does anyone think there will be issues with dealing with it that way?

-Thanks,

Thad

Steamhead

That would work too

depending on the size of the system it might be more work than a FWL, but if you don't have the "A" dimension for the FWL you don't have a choice.

Pics pleez!

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Mad Dog

That's what I would do too

Flow checks do not belong on the steam side of anything. Mad Dog

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Thad English

gonna go take pics now. Should have'em up in about 20 minutes.
thx

Thad English

here are the pix

In the first photo, the second from the rightpipe is the drip leg at the end of the main. The other 3 pipes are returns. You can see how with the water line being lower now (it's right about where that lowest union is near the bottom of the pic) steam can get right around and into the returns. The checks are only on the return pipes, not on the drip.

The second pic is another example of how the returns and drips are connected. There are a total of four liek this in my basement. What would the easiest/most effective fix be?

Thanks,
Thad

PS: my photo editing software crashed and I had to take this right from the camera. Sorry it's such huge a file.

Thad English

pic

> In the first photo, the second from the rightpipe

> is the drip leg at the end of the main. The other

> 3 pipes are returns. You can see how with the

> water line being lower now (it's right about

> where that lowest union is near the bottom of the

> pic) steam can get right around and into the

> returns. The checks are only on the return

> pipes, not on the drip.

>

> The second pic is

> another example of how the returns and drips are

> connected. There are a total of four liek this in

> my basement. What would the easiest/most

> effective fix be?

>

> Thanks, Thad

>

> PS: my

> photo editing software crashed and I had to take

> this right from the camera. Sorry it's such huge

> a file.



Pix are up and not too huge, Steamhead.
thx,

Thad English

pic

Pix are up and not too huge.

Thanks, Steamhead.


-Thad

Steamhead

Lower the connection points

to the lowest point you can get them. This will make sure they stay under water.

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Thad English

muchas gracias

Thank you very much, Steamhead.

Happy Holidays and may the New Year bless you with health and prosperity.

-Thad