100 Year Old Steam - in Santa Barbara(!)

Brian Gregory

Recently I've purchased a number of Dan's books to help
me understand my 100 year old steam system, which is still
working, mostly unmodified except for conversion to oil in
1944 and natural gas in 1961.

I am posting this message to correspond with anyone who may
have a really old system like this still in operation. Here
in California, particularly in ultra-temperate Santa Barbara,
steam systems are a rarity, especially ones of my house's
vintage (1904).

For the most part it works well after 100 years of service,
though I think there are vital maintenance things that
should be done that aren't. I also had some pretty severe
water hammer this season, but thanks to Dan I have got the
system back to its usual good-natured self (the pressure
and water level were both too high).

The system is based on an American Radiator Company "Ideal"
boiler No. 186. After looking at the American Radiator
1897 Catalog elsewhere on heatinghelp.com (what a great
reference!), I am pretty sure I am running American Radiator
Company radiators, as well. After looking at Dan's descrip-
tions, I am reasonably sure this is a "two pipe" system,
and the ends of the radiators that get hot are pretty
consistent. :-) Each radiator has one valve and one air
vent. As expected, the only way to really "shut off" a
radiator in this arrangement is to close both the valve
AND the vent. Not sure if this is kosher though.

Having found no main vents, it seems that the system is
vented solely at the radiators, though the main vents may
have been lost over the years. There's a lot of asbestos
insulation, which I encapsulated in a renovation a few
years ago with either fiberglass or duct cloth/plaster
(not sure of the term). Who knows, there could be blocked
vents under all that stuff.

I am convinced after reading Dan's books (I am partway
through them) that any trouble (one or two radiators
don't "put out") I am having is a venting issue. Some
vents have been converted to a modern expanding-disk type
of valve, but I would humbly ask for better suggestions.
Some of the disks in the valves that should expand when
hot don't, and some are gooey'd up.

Anyway, I feel lucky to have such a vintage system that
is still in operation. The landmarks commission here
actually took pictures of the boiler when the house got
landmark status! I would like to ensure that I do whatever
I can to give it another 100 years of life.

So, if anyone has experience or whatever, I'd be happy to
correspond. I figure with Dan's books and my regular
plumber, we can hopefully approximate what you all in
the rest of the country can find in the yellow pages! ;-)

Thanks in advance.
Brian Gregory
steamheat@sb1732.net

Brian Gregory

Radiator connections - clarification

I may have misled the audience -- each radiator has
two connections (pipe sizes look about the same), both
at the bottom, at each end of the radiator. The vent is at the top,
at the opposite end of where the valve (at the bottom) is.
As I said, these radiators always seem to get hot first
at one regular end; that implies that there is definitely
a "supply" side to the piping.

tim smith

old steamer

1st thing I might suggest is you replace all you thermostatic traps on the radiators with new ones, if it
has been many years since they have been touched. This may take care of your no heat rads. Also, someone who understands steam boilers should clean and test boiler, clean and test safety and operating controls and flush out old boiler just to start with. The trap replacement is probably long over due. Good luck.

Steamhead

Brian, are there shutoff valves

at both pipe connections to the radiators? If so, that's a "two-pipe, air-vent" system. If not, it might still be two-pipe air-vent, or it might be something else.

If you can, take some pictures and post them here. This will help us identify your system.

It is usual for some types of radiators to heat up one full section at a time. Others heat up across the top first, and work their way down.

You could get away without main vents in the old days, since a coal fire burned all day. Once the air was out, it stayed out- so what if this process took an hour? With oil or gas firing this is not the case, so you will need to add main vents of the proper size.

The Ideal 186 is probably a "sectional" boiler, with huge flue passages. It is possible to baffle these passages so less heat goes up the chimney. This is a job for a pro.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brian Gregory

Re: Brian, are there shutoff valves

Thanks for the reply; sorry to have been away so long!

There are only valves on one side of the radiators. In
most cases the air vent is at the opposite end from the
shutoff valve. In the couple where the vent is at the
same end, I now believe that they were put in backwards
when we renovated in 1999 (at that time all of the radiators
were removed, cleaned, and repainted). Though one side of
the radiator tends to get hot first, even closing the
shutoff valve doesn't keep the radiator from getting warm.
I have to close both the shutoff and the vent to totally
keep it cold. I think you are right that it's a two-pipe
air vent system. I will post some pix later this weekend.
The radiators themselves heat one section at a time. I
also think you are right that there are no main vents, as
if you let the system fire long enough the whole system
heats up, even the one or two stubborn radiators at the
most distance from the boiler. Yep, it's at least half
an hour from the time the boiler fires to the first signs
of heat downstairs, then another half an hour for upstairs.
The system works best on cold days because since it has to
fire longer, more of the system heats up. Ironically,
sometimes on the coldest nights we wake up in the wee hours
dying of the heat because it's working at its best! This
is a system engineered for coal-fire 24x7, definitely.
In the old days they probably just opened the windows if
it got too hot. It is also one of these "healthful"
fresh-air intake type of systems, with duct work and
fresh air inlets for the downstairs radiators, which are
in boxes below the floor with registers.

Anyway, I agree that a main vent will probably speed things
up quite a bit; during the winter the boiler fires often
enough to where the water is never below 90-100 degrees,
so it's pretty responsive once warm. It's just slow to
get the air out. My challenge is that the nearest steam
heat contractors are hundreds of miles away, so I might
have to read more into Dan's books to figure stuff out
and do it myself (with my regular plumber's help)!

The Ideal 186 boiler is definitely sectional. It's bolted
together with 4 rods, and is about 4' long, 2' wide, and
4' high. It has two steam risers on the output, and there
is a wet return. Since fiddling with it this winter, I
think my steam is pretty dry. The assessment of a lot
of heat going up the chimney is probably true; the chimney
is like a wind tunnel when going (it has a flue vent on
the side with a little weight that affects the amount
the vent can open; there is also a damper on the output
of the firebox which is adjustable from full open to
almost closed. right now it is about 2/3 open.) I am
a little leery of messing with the fire-side controls
too much lest I blow up the house. I think the wife would
be a little peeved at that! :-)

I'll post some pix of the boiler too, just for general
interest. This system has probably survived this long
because its job is pretty easy...

Thanks,
Brian.