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high efficiency gas boilers

simon hauger
simon hauger Member Posts: 6
in THE MAIN WALL
My gas boiler is in need of being replaced and I would like to go with a high efficiency boiler. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I have found three that look good:

NTI "The Trinity" 150,000 BTU for $2500

Weil-McLain Ultra 155,000 BTU for $4400

Burnham "Revolution II"

Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Comments

  • Tom_40
    Tom_40 Member Posts: 9
    High Efficient gas boilers

    Try the Munchkin, from Heat Transfer Products of E. Freetown, MA. ( www.htproducts.com). Four different sizes, vents with 2" PVC pipe, modulates boiler output according to outside air temperature, has 92% AFUE
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    You looking to do this yourself?


    ???

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • DennisS
    DennisS Member Posts: 6
    no good

    Don't buy a Munchkin they are having all sorts of quality problems. Just ask anyone who installs a lot of them. I have installed an Ultra and think its a nice boiler but the jury is still out on how well it will do in the long run. Each situation is different based on what type of system pipping you have.
  • Greg Swob
    Greg Swob Member Posts: 167
    You will find

    that everyone has a favorite and not-so-favorite brand. The reasons will vary widely. A mediocre boiler installed by a high level of skill and art will out perform and likely out live a high quality article of equipment installed incorrectly. We have taken some installations, re-piped them and corrected deficiencies with good results without changing the heart of the system out. Sometimes, the old guy just has to go and a new one is needed.

    Now, as for me, I like the Trinity, followed by Munchkin. My reason(s)- price, availability, serviceability, performance, experience and most of all - the impeccably high level of service I get from the distributor. My supplier bends over backwards, so has their maunfacturer rep. during an install problem. Some other brands are likely superior, but these work for my situations and customers. When the manuf. rep. came to inspect our first install and said "hey, I like this... a textbook installation..." we earned his respect. In return, his advice and suggestions have helped us immensely ever since then.

    Now, this is what you need to look for- not so much "the brand", but "the man". (pardon any politically incorrectness). Greg
  • Rich W
    Rich W Member Posts: 175
    choice

    I agree with Greg. Except we use Viessmann and Munchkin.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Hey Joe

    I install "alot" of Munchkins. Why am I not having all of these "problems"?

    You have one Ultra out there eh? Welcome to the year 2004.

    Unless you know for certain that EVERY issue that has come up with the Munchkin was an equipment issue and not installer error, save the commentary.

    Mark H

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Grumpy_2
    Grumpy_2 Member Posts: 82
    Boiler of choice

    I love the Weil-Mclain Ultra's, got dozens of them in service. BUT!! They are now on probation with me, as they can't seem to find three lousy little AM4's! It's only been 6 weeks and 2 days since they have been on order. Anyone from Weil listening?? The four going in next week are three Munchkin's and my first Buderus. Weil is earning one week on probation for each day I have to wait for their parts. What a way to run a railroad!
  • Bart_2
    Bart_2 Member Posts: 18
    Munnnnnckin

    Munchkin first and Viessman second. I have dozens of the Munckins out there and running happily, no problems. American Water Heater's Polaris 94+ gas water heaters are my prefrence right now till they (HT) upgrade the Voyager to the new Control package (Munchkin Style).. Most heating equipment will only perform as well as it was installed.
  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 285
    Boilers

    Trinitys for me but I will be installing one of the new Buderus next month.Looking forward to it.

    Good Luck
    Brian
  • Floyd_7
    Floyd_7 Member Posts: 136
    I told you...

    I could get them for you!!!! Plus they don't NEED the friggin' AM-4's to run!!!! As usual though the boiler is only as good as the supplier you got.......
    Just checked... there are 2 in Erie, Pa.
    As soon as I get done with this I'm gonna eml. my contact in the Ultra engineering dept. I'd love to get to the root of this story.
    As for me.... if installed correctly I have found the Ultra to run in the high 90's most of the time... I think it is the better heat transfer qualities of the Alum. HX...... when you have flue temps. running below return water temps.....then you are makin' some serious heat transfer, plus pullin' the latent heat outta the condensate!!!
    Gotta have the flow though.......
    Checked the boiler in my basement the other morning with my brand new C75..... 98.8%!!!!!!
    Started a new 230 the other day.....98.6% ran it to high fire... 98.2%.......your results WILL vary with the quality of the installation........

    As for reliabilty.... got a few out ther that haven't shut down for over a year.....just a purrin' away keepin little piggy's warm......yea the squealin' pink ones....in a stinkin barn.......how's that for a torture test.....

    And if you really want to get fancy...... say you want the power of a 155 to make hot water, but your house only needs an 80 to keep you warm.... no problem. Just let it go to high fire to heat the DHW and set it up to only run to half fire for the space heating....now you got two boilers in one with reset and modulation as an extra......
    While your at it spend a few more bucks and hook the ole laptop up to it and watch it run!!!!!

    Please, if ya don't know what your doin', don't attempt the installation yourself!!!! AND make sure your installer, if you contract it out, knows his sssshhhh stuff.....

    Good luck!!!

    Floyd
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718


    Check out Buderus. High quality great price and proven record. I recommend using the R2107 control if it makes sence for you install.

    PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • jerry scharf_2
    jerry scharf_2 Member Posts: 414
    what's the rest of the system

    Simon,

    I am going to assume that you are having a professional install the unit, since any of these need special tools to install correctly. Also, one should assume that the near boiler piping will need to be redone to accomodate the new boiler.

    Before I make any recommendations, I like to know what the rest of the system is. What type of controls do you have, what type of output (radiators, fan coils, radiant...) Each will have it's own impact on the way the boiler works.

    There are many fine condensing/modulating boilers out there, of which most have been mentioned in this thread. Every one of these systems can be and has been botched by bad installs. Don't get anyone who is on their first condenser install or says "brand X doesn't work..."

    best of luck,

    jerry
  • simon hauger
    simon hauger Member Posts: 6


    Mark,
    Yes.
  • simon hauger
    simon hauger Member Posts: 6


    Jerry,
    Thanks for the info.
    I have radiators - two story house 2000 sq ft.
    Simon
  • simon hauger
    simon hauger Member Posts: 6


    Greg,
    Thanks - that is very helpful!!
  • Troy_3
    Troy_3 Member Posts: 479
    Boilers

    My choices are Munchkin and Viessman. They are both high quality boilers. Each will not work well if installed by inexperienced installers. I have found that all high efficiency equipment has a learning curve. Don't be the guinea pig.
  • jerry scharf_2
    jerry scharf_2 Member Posts: 414
    controls

    Simon,

    Are the controls simple thermostats, TRVs? Are there multiple zones? Just about all the boilers mentioned come with outdoor reset. IMO, don't even think of installing a condensing boiler into your system (radiators) without outdoor reset. It will also make the house more comfortable.

    Also, you may want to run a higher delta T on the system (which means slowing down the water a bit.) The efficiency of the boiler is inversely related to the return water temperature, so the cooler the returning water, the happier the condensing boiler is.

    If you have TRVs (or want to add those), you might consider the Viessmann Vitodens. One of the regulars (Mike T) has been posting his results from a conversion to a vitodens and the results have been great. They are expensive, but beautifully made and some of the smartest controls in the business.

    jerry
  • Kal Row
    Kal Row Member Posts: 1,520
    the vie$$ann is the best but the ultra is the most forgiving...

    ps this is NOT based on my own experiance, but by being glued to the wall and reading whats hapening out there, never heard anyone curse out the vie$$mann - whereas muntchkin takes a licking on the wall on a regular bases, the vie$$mann vitoden200 is simply amazing but the ultra works great even if the installer screws up - or is connected to cast iron radiators that cant really take advantage of "condensing", its built with an american mindset - it can handle cold shocks, bad primary flow, bad pressures, screwed up flues, only bad power seems to make it crazy, and that's easily solved with a computer grade UPS, which you want with all of these anyway
  • TomStayer
    TomStayer Member Posts: 38
    and the MZ

    The MZ by Monitor Products comes with the exp tank, system circ., and air elim already built into it. Very simple to install and quality unit to boot.

    No complex controls to setup unless one desires the Mod Control offered by MPI. Just run heat supply/return, hook up gas & electric and the boiler is ready for business.

    Take a look at mzboiler.com .............

  • Kal Row
    Kal Row Member Posts: 1,520
    oh, you want simple?, system 2000 - energykinetics.com

  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Floyd,



    Never mind all that % stuff, what are you heating and how much does it cost a day?

    Money talks......

    al
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