Homeowner has questions

IanC

Hi All,

I was looking for info on boilers when I ran across this site. Maybe you guys can answer a few questions for me.

My house is heated by a hotwater system (Utica boiler, 2 zones, baseboard radiators). The boiler also supplies the domestic hot water. I'm under the impression that the heating system was done on the cheap for a number of reasons: The service guy told me the boiler was a low-cost model, I can hear the water flowing through the pipes when the circulator is running, we often lose heat upstairs and that loop has to be bled to get it going again, the domestic hot water is the same temperature as the boiler so is scalding hot, etc...

Anyway, the service guy who did the annual cleaning last week, told me that the boiler should be replaced due to its age and general condition and left a pamphlet for a Weil-McLain WGO model. He also recommended installing an indirect water heater made by Triangle Tube for the domestic hot water. While they're at it, they will also add a device that will purge the air from the system (I think he called it a Spirovent?) The claims are that doing this will save us a bundle on oil (new boiler is ~20% more efficient), allow us to have non-scalding hot water, and quieter, more dependable heating. Of course, all of this will cost a few thousand bucks.

So, are these guys exaggerating the benefits? Do you know if the equipment brands they recommend are decent quality? Is there anything else that should be added if the system is being upgraded? Thanks for any information you can provide!

Darin Cook_3

Do Not Walk Run Back to the Phone

Take this guy up on that offer. The Equipment costs a few thousand bucks.

Weezbo

a jpeg would help in the visual...

whatever the boiler ,there are common "Issues" with the beauties one is air ,what you may have been reccommended was another properly piped system, no real way of knowing...perhaps the current system only needs modifications ...is it Easy to clean?P.S. the pieces that they are recommending are indeed good standard quality.

Plumbob

> Hi All,

>

> I was looking for info on boilers when

> I ran across this site. Maybe you guys can answer

> a few questions for me.

>

> My house is heated by

> a hotwater system (Utica boiler, 2 zones,

> baseboard radiators). The boiler also supplies

> the domestic hot water. I'm under the impression

> that the heating system was done on the cheap for

> a number of reasons: The service guy told me the

> boiler was a low-cost model, I can hear the water

> flowing through the pipes when the circulator is

> running, we often lose heat upstairs and that

> loop has to be bled to get it going again, the

> domestic hot water is the same temperature as the

> boiler so is scalding hot, etc...

>

> Anyway, the

> service guy who did the annual cleaning last

> week, told me that the boiler should be replaced

> due to its age and general condition and left a

> pamphlet for a Weil-McLain WGO model. He also

> recommended installing an indirect water heater

> made by Triangle Tube for the domestic hot water.

> While they're at it, they will also add a device

> that will purge the air from the system (I think

> he called it a Spirovent?) The claims are that

> doing this will save us a bundle on oil (new

> boiler is ~20% more efficient), allow us to have

> non-scalding hot water, and quieter, more

> dependable heating. Of course, all of this will

> cost a few thousand bucks.

>

> So, are these guys

> exaggerating the benefits? Do you know if the

> equipment brands they recommend are decent

> quality? Is there anything else that should be

> added if the system is being upgraded? Thanks for

> any information you can provide!

Plumbob

Some service guys get a commission if they can sell you a new unit. Maybe you need a new unit, maybe not. At least he didn't tell you your heat exchanger is cracked!

If there's so much air in the system, it won't be cured just by an air eliminator, but there may be piping errors (very common, unfortunately) which would also get fixed during a new installation. But adding these things doesn't require buying a new boiler. How old is the current boiler?

Flow noise may be due to the circulator being too powerful. Fast water circulation has no particular benefits, but some people believe in "bigger is better".

You won't save a bundle but you may save 10-15% if you have an old boiler (gas prices and weather vary a lot so you may not see this reduction in dollars each year). The savings will probably never pay for your boiler, but if your boiler is 30+ years old, you have to replace it sooner or later. If it is new (just cheap), don't replace it, but get the piping redone and a Spirovent put in, and maybe a new smaller pump if that is indeed the problem. You need someone who really knows hydronics, unfortunately not just someone who installs hydronics.

John McArthur_2

Second opinions in the heating industry are just as important as the medical industry. I mean no disrespect, but one mans opinion of Utica boilers ... I have those same feelings about Weil McLain. As stated by other replies, it could be piping issues. I would have another tech take a look..

Nick W

Commission?

You sound so sure that someone is after a commission.
I've always paid my men well with the understanding that sales commissions are out of the question.
I think most other contractors do the same.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Steamhead

If the Utica has a \"Tankless coil\"

which it sounds like it does from your description, switching to an indirect heater like the Triangle would save you money and give you more hot water. But you don't need a new boiler to make this happen!

The air eliminator can be added to the existing boiler also.

Utica makes a good product. I see quite a few out there and they seem to hold up well. But a faulty installation can make any boiler look bad. Try the Find a Professional page of this site to locate someone near you who can help.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jerry scharf_2

You have a heating system

Ian,

Sounds like the main reason to upgrade would be to save money. He tossed a number out there, but my guess is there is nothing to back that up. I would not "replace the boiler and add a spirovent," rather understand what's going on and make the best decisions on how to go forward.

IMO you want to start from the beginning. You can download and do your own heat loss calculations (look at the pipe on the top left) for your house or get a contractor to. It's quite possible that the boiler down there is the wrong size (often too big.) Don't forget to look at what you can do to reduce the house's need for heat. This is often the best way to save money on you heating bills.

Next get someone in to look at the piping of the system and make sure it's done right. If after looking at this site for a while you start asking more and more questions that the contractor can't answer, you probably have the wrong one. You can try the find a pro feature on this site as well.

Then you need to look at how the system is controlled (both from the rooms and at the boiler.) There have been many improvements on how to manage a hot water heat system since that old boiler went in. These can help the energy savings and comfort of the house.

Finally you can look at different boilers with their costs, efficiencies and features and see what is going to make the most sense for you.

If you invest the time and energy now, you can get a system that will serve you well for decades to come.

best of luck,
jerry