Strange steam convectors

Steamhead

in Dan's book "E.D.R.", which is a compilation of old radiator and convector catalogs. I'm pretty sure the Aero units are in there. If not, use the ratings for another brand matching the dimensions of your Aeros. You can order a copy on the Books and More page of this site.

You probably have a Milwaukee Valve Co. (MILVACO) Vapor system feeding those Aeros. Vapor was the Cadillac of heating in the old days and is still one of the best systems out there. Keep yours in good shape and it will give you years of economical comfort.

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todd s

Steam convectors

Aero Convector LH 5 1/2, this was all I could find on the one radiator enclosure we could remove. Does anyone know the EDR of these? I wanted to recalculate my measurements. These are on a two pipe system, the traps appear to be Milvaco H100.

todd s

EDR Book

I figured it would be in here, but haven't ordered it yet. I had posted to you about a week ago, this is the house that had the Warco vent in the return main. I could not find any specific system (in lost art or library) that matches what I am looking at in this house. The vapor/vacuum vent is the only thing I could find which made me believe that it was a vapor system. There is now a BL-380 Weil in there and I'm trying to help this to work better with a quicker steaming boiler. I have so far added 4-main vents and replaced three near the boiler - all Dole#5 and 2 Hoffman#75. The system is working better but needs a bit more going over. The dry returns are a bit clogged and I'm sure the wet ones are worse. There are approx 35 radiators in this house and they are all in some type of enclosure in the walls. The house had recently been repainted and floors resanded so it was difficult to actually see the radiators until today when I stopped by the homeowner had removed one of the cabinets so i could see the radiators and traps. This is why I was asking. I wanted to find the actual brand specs. and re-check my sq ft calculations. Also I thought that by posting the brands that a light would go on for someone and I could find out more. I have worked on many 1-pipe systems but this is my first 2-pipe and its a big house. I currently have this running at 1.5 cutout and it doesn't want to go off on pressure so I wanted to make sure the boiler could fill the whole system.

Steamhead

This type of convector Vapor system

was very popular starting in the late 1920s when convectors first became widely available, thru the 1930s and early 1940s until the start of World War II. Some manufacturers used Return Traps while others did not. Some used Float Trap/Air Eliminators, others used regular main vents. And some, especially Trane, did away with traps and used supply-side orifices to keep steam out of the dry return.

Convectors have less internal space than radiators so the boiler should not have any trouble filling them if it is properly sized.

The Milvaco systems I've seen were pretty standard Vapor setups with radiator traps and sometimes Return Traps. I believe you mentioned there was no Return Trap on this system, but it may have had one originally and someone removed it. You could compare this particular system in its present configuration to the Dunham Home Heating System in chapter 15 of Lost Art, and substitute standard main vents for the Dunham's crossover traps and FT/AR.

It is important to keep the pressure low on this system. If you don't already have a Vaporstat on it, you should install one. Set it to 8 or 10 ounces cut-out (Main) and 4 or 5 to cut back in (Differential).

To select main vents for steam mains (assuming you don't have crossover traps), measure the length and diameter of each main and post the results here. We can tell you what you need. If the dry returns join together above the boiler waterline, a Gorton #2 is a good vent choice. If they drop below the waterline before joining, a Gorton #1 or Hoffman #75 on each should be fine.



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todd s

That is exactly

what I was hoping for. This is a rare type of system in my area.
The main thing that I'm having a problem with is the slow heating in the one large area of the house. This area has alot of convectors and is very slow to heat. It is served by a 2.5"main(approx 120ft long) and two 1.25 split returns. I have replaced/added more venting on this return main and it has helped. I was thinking of adding a vaporstat but I was more concerned with the actual load vs. my guesstimation through the enclosures. I haven't had the presstrol off on limit. I was hoping I wasn't undersized but I am not sure now.

Steamhead

That main

should be vented with two Gorton #2 vents, assuming you're going to use vents rather than crossover traps. Are there any other mains in this system?

Remember also that at low pressures, the steam is not compressed. Therefore it will fill a larger space.

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todd s

Returns

That large main is now vented like this: The far end of each dry return now has a Dole #5 on each end, they were previously plugged. The runs each have a dole #4 added to a vertical 1/2" nipple which had one capped and the other the Warco vacum vent. The supply main has a Dole #5 on a heel outlet elbow where it drops down to the wet return. The top of the wet return near the hartford loop is crossed over with the drips from the mains and is vented with two Hoffman #75. One smaller return main has a crossover trap(dated 1917), this is heating well. The other small return has a trap in place but it was disconnected across the mains, there is no other trap or vent on this return, it also heats well. I am wondering if there was some type of crossover at one point.

Mad Dog

Yeah or even more................................

I love the Gorton #2s, and add as many as I can until I can't improve the response any more. Steamhead has given you sound advice. He and Noel helped me design mine. I hope you are gettiing paid well for your work. For years, I used to =take on those systems and spend days fine tuning them but, only charge for a few hours labor. I just hope yoiu are getting whaT you deserve. God Bless you for grappling with the old system. You have now joined the Deadmen's Steam Society. Mad Dog

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Steamhead

If the \"Dole #5 on a heel outlet elbow\"

is at the end of the long main that you're having trouble getting hot, this is where those two Gorton #2 vents should go.

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Unknown

National \"Aero\" Convectors

If they look like the ones below they are National Radiator Aero Convectors. I'm not sure what the "LH" sigifies unless this particular one was originally designated as a One-Pipe type with a left hand feed and staggered legs to keep pitch to the left. I would thing that yours is probably similar to the 5B type in the drawing. You will need the height, length and depth of the enclosure to properly determine the output though. This scan is out of the "Hydronic Rating Handbook" by T.R. Byrley. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

www.burnham.com

Todd_9

Gorton #2

Does this main need these two vents even with the additional ones already added? What is the equvalent of these in other brands? GOerton is not a stock brand in our local supply houses. I originally picked up the Doel's because they were the largest anyone had in stock. I had to special order the two Hoffman #75.

Steamhead

Yes it does

The capacity of the Gorton #2 vents is what counts here. Go to Gorton's site- www.gorton-valves.com . Get in touch with Ken Kunz and tell him I sent you. He can tell you where to get them, or if no one in oyur area carries them he can sell to you direct.

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todd s

Gorton's

I was able to order a couple from Sid Harvey, everyone else tried to talk me into their brand - of course. I am going to add these to the system and I'll report back. Thanks for all the help.

todd s

Thanks Glenn

I believe that they are the 5 7/8" depth models but they clearly say 5 1/2 on them.

I have measured the house once but I was trying to match the width of the radiator, not whole enclosure. I had used a page out of the Hydronics Institute Guide 2000 part 9. This shows convectors in a cabinet enclosure. The ones I'm looking at are all custom wood built in that are recessed in the wall and backed with tin. I am being anal only due to the fact that I came up with 904sq ft of radiation.
The old boiler, a smith mills 2000a had over 1100 sq ft rating. The new unit is(gasp) a Weil 380 with a rating of 876sq ft rating. If I add a section to the boiler it will bring us to over 1200 sqft. I knew I was going to be close but I can't believe that this would prevent a two pipe system from eventually filling all the radiators since some traps will be shutting down.

I am working with the homeowner now on getting the pipe insulation completed. Some of the old asbestos had been removed, he is leaving whats intact and adding to it. I hope that it is only the bare piping that is giving me this grief.