Workin' At the Carwash Blues - DF

Brent_2

The website states: 20 year tubing material and labor warranty, the strongest in the industry!
Did the customer try to go back to the manufacturer? It would be interesting to hear what the response was.

brent

Dan Foley

Snowmelt

We looked at a snowmelt system for a carwash the other day. The system is only three years old but appears shot. The plastic manifolds are leaking and the valves break as soon as you try to open or close them. The tubing appears to be non-barrier polybutylene. The is no mixing device to temper the supply water or protect the boiler. Someone has re-wired the boiler eliminating several of the safeties.

Here are my questions? Has anyone seen or worked on this type of system? I would like to replace the plastic manifolds with brass manifolds. Will pex fittings work on the poly? What temps can the poly handle? The existing setup sent 180* glycol to the manifolds. Here is a link to the manufacturer. Any input would be most appreciated. -DF

Link:

http://www.carwashsuppliers.com/pro.htm



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Dan Foley

Warranty

The original contractor walked off the job and suggested the owner contact someone else. -DF

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Paul Pollets

Looks like

Qwest PB. I've converted these systems using barbed/PEX adapters and installed Wirsbo manifolds, and a SS marine-grade heat exchanger. If the PB isn't too brittle, it's an "easy proposition". Exclude the existing piping from any warranties.

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Dan Foley

Fittings

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info. Do you have a source for the barbed adapters? -DF

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Big Idahoan

barbed fittings

i have found these transition fittings from pex x pb, by contacting are local supply house (keller supply and furgeson). they both have stocked these items. sioux chief makes them model # 645x2g 1/2" and 645x3g 3/4" and vangaurd pex also, from 3/8" to 1" mod. # xb22,33,44,55. the only draw back is its a standard insert pex fitting that uses a crimp ring and the insert fitting will have some flow restriction. hope this helps.

hr

The PB

should have a listing number on it. Usually an ASTM 3309 on the tube. If it is PB it had an OD of 5/8" (like copper tube) and it usually had a CTS-OD marking. The wall thickness was thinner than Pex, usually .062. Pex fittings WILL NOT fit this tube. But the crimp rings will (same OD) pex rings are black colored and a bit thicker than the plain copper PB rings.

Sioux Chief still offers some PB fittings.

Now, some of those carwashes used PE tube that was usually an ASTM D-2239 listing. Different fitting, often with hose clamps.

I don't recall a fusion fitting for PE. I'll bet you have some brand of PB.

Actually Vanguard extruded PB in Kansas for special order stuff like carwash and mobile home manufactures, recently.

Looks a little bit like the old Thawmaster system sold by Huron Valley Sales?? they had some connection with Raypack, I believe. Usually a copper tube boiler with a simple 3 ball valve mix system.

What was in it for anti freeze? Be sure to use an isolation HX as most PB was not barrier.

If it is hard and brittle run away! Stay away from any warranty if you do tackle this one!


hot rod

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Paul Pollets

Source

I get the fittings from Chris Rorke at Blueline Supply (307) 733-3953. I use the stainless crimp rings and crimper, which I also got from him.

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hydronicsmike

Will you be...

...looking into making this system run more effectively and making it last longer? The tubing (if still usable as Hot Rod mentioned) could possibly last you longer if operated at lower temperatures.

With car washes, I generally use a heat exchanger off the boiler to isolate the boiler from a glycol outdoor slab loop. Then use Variable Speed Injection (or Motorized Mixing Valve) out of the glycol side of the Heat Exchanger and mix the water temperature down to anything lower than 140°F. A car wash is usually not suited for a traditional snowmelt system and I normally operate those more in a slab warming kind of application due to liabillity reasons and ice buildup has to be eliminated all the time. So an automatic Snow and ice melt Sensor is not what I would use in this case.

For this Application, I normally use and recommend the 362 tekmar Mixing Control (in MODE 2) with an 072/073 Slab sensor and an 071 Mix Return Sensor for Slab deltaT protection. The Control would have a permanent demand with a melting Setpoint set to 35-36°F. The Control would always maintain the surface of the slab at this temperature when ever the Outdoor Temperature and/or Slab Surface Temperature is lower than that. This ensures that Ice never even builds up.

If you're interested, I may have a drawing for a job as such on file. Let me know. You know where you can find me.

Take care Dan.

Mike

Mike Kraft_2

working @ the car wash!

Looks like one I've looked at around the corner.Wirsbo has a pex to pb fitting also.It's in the aquapex catalog.the 1/2" fitting is part # Q4585050.The feed tank on the local wash here is automotive antifreeze.CU boiler though.

cheese

Dan Foley

Thank you

Thanks, everyone, for all of the helpful information. It's nice to know that no matter what you see out there, someone here on the wall has seen it before. I will keep you posted on this one. -DF

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