Load calc

[Deleted User]

11,000Btu boiler is needed for my radiant job. Any thoughts on an oil fired (prefer condensing)boiler this small?

Constantin

No boiler that small sold stateside...

... the only condensing oil boiler on this side of the pond is the Monitor FCX. Good luck!

Weezbo

Go Plate exchanger off a water heater.........

as Constantine says there arent alot of boilers unless you think Electric... oops I forgot about the wabasco diesel truck "boiler"they are complex on the electrical side....

[Deleted User]

The rason for

a heat exchanger off of the wtr heater is for issolation or to allow modulation using a mixing valve, or...?

Constantin

Good Call, Weezbo!

I forgot about those Diesel-fired furnaces/boilers. Besides Webasto, you can also chose product from Espar/Ebersp

Ron Schroeder_2

Is this an addition or the only source of heat?

> 11,000Btu boiler is needed for my radiant job.

> Any thoughts on an oil fired (prefer

> condensing)boiler this small?




Is this an addition or the only source of heat? If it is an addition, what is the current heat source?

Ron

Constantin

The reason for the flat-plate HX

...is to ensure that your heating system is hermetically sealed from the potable water system. You don't want legionella and other nasties given any additional incentives to populate your potable water system, right?

The isolation also allows the water in the radiant part of the system to "die"... i.e. the oxygen is eaten up as a fcn of time, as long as the rest of the system does not allow more oxygen in (i.e. use tubing with an O₂-barrier, etc.). If the heating system is isolated like that, you can get away with using inexpensive cast-iron-bodied pumps instead of requiring the use of stainless ones.

[Deleted User]

This is a seperate building,

> > 11,000Btu boiler is needed for my radiant

> job. _BR_ > Any thoughts on an oil fired

> (prefer _BR_ > condensing)boiler this small?

> _BR_ _BR_

>

> Is this an addition or the only

> source of heat? If it is an addition, what is

> the current heat source?

>

> Ron

[Deleted User]

This is a seperate shop building,

some distance from the main building. Being a shop area, there is no need for domestic. I'm going to install an Insta-hot for the few gallons of hot domestic I'll need.

Ron Schroeder_2

My shop is 50 feet away from my house but I heat it as a zone from my house with buried insulated pipe. Is this shop close enough to do that too?

Is the shop expected to be heated to a normal temperature all season or just heated minimally most of the time?

Is the boiler going to be in the conditioned space?


Ron

[Deleted User]

Ron

Shop is about 100' away. I think a bit too far.

[Deleted User]

some add' stuff

Will be heated at all times & the Boiler will be installed within the shop area. Shop is about 100' away from main building. Reason was going with oil was to keep both buildings on same delivery schedule - one call does it all...

Ron Schroeder_2

Hi Fred,

Your shop has about the same heat load as my house so I know what you are dealing with. I am not sure that a condensing boiler would be cost effective at that low of a load.

I would think that your best choice would be a small boiler with a buffer tank (possably an electric hot water heater with no elements) so you can keep the boiler from short cycling and the radiant running off of the tank with a 3 or 4 way valve and it's own circ. Standby losses from the boiler jacket and the tank would not matter since they are in the conditioned space.

You could run some baseboard directly off the tank if you need extra heat.

Use a hot-rod heat exchanger for winter DHW and an electric tankless for summer DHW.

The Buderus 115/21 is .6gph. I don't know if there is anything smaller.

Ron

Jed_2

A bit too far????

Many Outdoor Wood Furnaces run lines 100', 200', 300', or more to the main house. A P/S sub-system could easily be set up to provide RFH and, with a very small plate or other type (Everhot RH, maybe. think buffer), provide all you need. 11,000 BTU/H is nothing. 5/8" Kitec would easily handle the load. Just my .02

Jed

ps: Constantin, I have heard of the Adams O/F condensing boiler. Don't know anything about it, but have seen Ads.

Darin Cook_3

Willing to go Propane

The Munchkin T-50 wall hung condensing boiler will modulate as low as 18,000 btus. You will not have to use any mixing device. Water in Water out. You will heat that building for next to nothing. Good Luck!






Darin

Jeffrey Campbell

Tankless

What about a small tankless unit. If you need hot water also you can use a heat exchanger and a flow swith to prioritize the DHW. I thought some of these tankless units have a first stage of around 8000-10,000 btus.
Jeffrey

Jed_2

Ditch the radiant

Put in an Empire or equivalent SPACE heater, and be done with it. You've already decided on some sort of domestic hot water device.

Jed_2

\"hermetically sealed\"?

> ...is to ensure that your heating system is

> hermetically sealed from the potable water

> system. You don't want legionella and other

> nasties given any additional incentives to

> populate your potable water system, right?

>

> The

> isolation also allows the water in the radiant

> part of the system to "die"... i.e. the oxygen is

> eaten up as a fcn of time, as long as the rest of

> the system does not allow more oxygen in (i.e.

> use tubing with an O_sub_2_/sub_-barrier, etc.).

> If the heating system is isolated like that, you

> can get away with using inexpensive

> cast-iron-bodied pumps instead of requiring the

> use of stainless ones.

Jed_2

\"hermetically sealed\"?

Nothing alchemous or magic or occult about a physical, material barrier betwen mediums. Hermes would turn over in his grave or Arturo also.

Jed

Weezbo

One last statement....

i have put a heating system in a shop Larger than the home 300 feet away,it has one inch wirsbo comming from the shop to the home....With a remote header in the home...and an indirect in the home wih a station by pass at the home...So,dont write off distance as an impediment just yet..foam the pipe 3" thick and you candrive overit 4' under ground all day every day with all manner of equipment,if you so desire..an I-series Zone valve in your case at the shop could either maintain set point or you could have it modulate as a stand alone with out door reset off the primary..:)cool?

Constantin

You must be referring to this:

The Adams and Dornback condensing furnace is indeed the only condensing furnace that's fired by oil on the US market. That's the same company, BTW, with matching websites. One site simply has Adams plastered on the exterior of the alleged manufacturing facility, while the other states Dornback. Quite weird, IMHO.

Note however, that they only manufacture furnaces, not boilers. Considering your attention to detail for proper word usage, this should have been obvious, no? ;-)

[Deleted User]

Options, options...

Thanks Guys - Talk about feedback!!

Well…looks like I could trench & tie off of my existing boiler. This makes sense – only one boiler, one tank, etc

Or, a water heater

Or, boiler with buffer tank – that would keep the boiler from short cycling

Or, a space heater : (

Or, buy a diesel truck and add a Webasto – maybe dual use – dump runs and heating? : )

Or, go other than oil opens up other possibilities – Munchkin, or tankless.

Leaning at this point to the water heater. Can an outdoor reset be tied to a water heater?

Unknown

it can, you can control an injection pump with an outdoor reset controller so it pulls a little or a lot of water out of the heater at a time. pretty cheap to add, and while it may not be as dramatic of a difference as it is with a boiler, it seems to be worth it.

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Jed_2

You're right

I probably wasn't paying close enough attention

[Deleted User]

Munchkin

Thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. I have decided to go with the propane fired Munchkin T50. Seems to be the best choice at this time.
thanks again!!

Doug Wagoner

Hold on a minute--

No one has mentioned a back-up diesel powered generator for emergency electrical. Tap the water jacket on the gen set and dump the heat in the shop via radiant or hydro coil. You need to exercise the gen set regularly any way. And you don't have money in a second boiler. Invest it in a duel purpose appliance. The diesel engine will run off your heating oil and eliminate the need for a different fuel.

Wayco Wayne_2

II think this

would be a good oportunity for a fuel cell. (Just Kidding ). With a radiant floor you could go with a ground source heat pump since the water temps don't have to be boiler temps high. WW

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Sweet

economical

Out here in the southwest a domestic 50 gal H.W.H. would handle the Heat load just fine ., Hook up zv with circ and turn it on.