Doing an uninstall

John R. Hall

How many people have experienced an "uninstall" -- taking out equipment that you've installed because the customer cannot be satisfied or they can't pay for the work, etc.?

That has to be a big drain on your resources. Do you charge a fee to take equipment back out? Do you chalk it up as a "cost of doing business?" What lengths do you go to to avoid this scenario?

Call it a journalist's curiosity.

clammy

uninstall

Ran into this promblem with a older ho with a willamson hot air furnace she was so used to her old low speed belt driven hot air unit that when the first cold day came we where there to much noise and odor complaints .I went there lower the fan speed and that was one promblem then she complained of oil odor 2 of our service men went there found nothing finally as we perparing to contact the co and replace the new burner with a low speed unit i noticed some one had converted her burner to a one pipe i noticed a open return line pushed agisnt the return duct there was your oil odor i flared it and capped it also found small leak on firematic valve re did some flares and cleaned her up 4 days no more complaints .Some times we given a repeat complaint you cannot keep sending the same guy you need a new set of eyes with a fresh approach to the job it's just that we are all human and are all bound to miss things .So in answer to your question yes we sometimes eat parts from getting beat but that is the cosat of doing business and you live and learn and from my experence when you sell a job don,t be cheap do every thing that can be done because when your done the ho isn't going to pay any thing extra that you probaly should have priced in to the job early and you can't always get paided for all that you do peace clammy

Dave Yates (PAH)

problem products, defects and disgruntled customers!

Been there, done that & have the deflated wallet to prove it!!!!!

Believe it or not John, the biggest percentage of returns (we see) are derived fron DIY purchased products. The odd part of that, was the customer demanding we furnish labor and sundry items - for free! The final straw, for me, was one "lady" who had a defective faucet (major name brand from HD, if you get my drift). I told her we would charge to remove it, return to HD and procure the replacement plus she'd be responsible for the re-install. My ear was singed by her rather vivid use of the English language.

So, I changed tactics and tried an analogy: "If you purchased motor oil from Manny, Moe & Jack and then took it to a garage to have your oil changed and that oil turned out to be defectively formulated - which caused engine damage - would you expect the garage to be responsible for the damage?" Man, I thought I had her for sure. Her reply? "You're damn right it would be their fault." Like the fool I am, I tried to argue that point - to no avail.

The result? I ate the cost. Lesson learned? You betcha. I developed a new warranty policy, which all customers (and contractors too) who purchase their own goods sign before we install or touch their owner-supplied products. I can copy you on that next week if you want to see it (on the work computer). It's been a God-send and eliminates any weird preconcieved perception of warped reality before problems can occur and, in many cases, has turned the owner away from supplying their own products.

As for removing products for which we haven't been paid? Can't legally do that (in my area) as the courts now consider those products an integral part of the real estate. Been there, found that out the hard way. That's no longer just a tub or furnace or boiler or A/C unit. Then there's the damage factor you'll be liable for if you cause any while removing the item. If it's a bankruptcy, the courts specifically prohibit removal of products we handle.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, the joys of being in business for yourself(G).

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jim murtaugh

CUST SUPPLIED ITEMS

CANT LEGALLY REMOVE ITEMS IN ILLINOIS EITHER/BUT DONT HAVE TO WARRTY.THEM SHOULD THEY NOT WORK!! WE WONT EVEN INSTALL A CUST.SUPPLIED T-STAT BECAUSE NEXT WEEK WHEN THE PILOT GOES OUT YOU EAT THAT SERVICE CALL. LEARNED THIS LESSON THE HARD WAY.

Constantin

No point arguing with idiots...

... some people think they're entitled to everything while paying nothing. I had some consulting clients like that once, a long time ago. We called it "scope creep". Trouble is, no matter what you do, everyone leaves a situation like that feeling cheated.

You hit the nail on the head with your warranty disclaimer, which I think is a great idea. Not only does it work legally, it also avoids most arguments later on...I think you would do the wall a service if you posted your document so that everyone can make their clients sign a similar disclaimer.

Dave Yates (PAH)

per your request - warranty policy

Mr. & Mrs. ???? Date

xxx street name

CITY, STATE ZIP

Dear Mr. & Mrs. ???,

With your providing some of the material for the _____________, I wanted to clarify our policy regarding warranty work. In the past, we have had several cases where owner-supplied products failed prematurely, resulting in confusion about where the division lies between our responsibilities and the owners.


RE: Warranty Policy for COMPANY NAME

It is our policy to provide a full one-year labor and material warranty only on materials purchased through and provided by COMPANY NAME. When others provide materials and fixtures, we do not include any warranty for either labor or materials.

In the event one of these products should not fit in the space as needed, break during installation or prove to be defective, the repairs/replacements would be charged on a time and materials basis. Those charges will include lost time from contract work, time spent dealing with the defect and any material costs involved which can include sundry items associated with the installation of the materials/fixtures.

Warranty expenses are, on average, covered by the normal profit margins we would otherwise gain from the sale of these items. It is imperative for all parties involved in this process to understand our position prior to proceeding with bidding and/or construction.

Sincerely yours,


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Constantin

Hey Everyone, cut and paste this for the next time!

Thanks for posting that, should save others time, pain, and suffering!

Unknown

Wow, you guys even do that?

Generally when DIY'ers come to us, we are very careful to specify up front that they need to understand most contractors won't touch anything they didn't supply themselves, so it's important to delineate what they are buying to put in themselves and where they intend to get a pro involved.

If they want us to supply something to them for a contractor to install (like a heat source), we still won't do it without a signed form stating the licensed installer understands that the unit will be purchased by the homeowner and is ok with it.

Last thing we want is someone to buy something from us to rot in their basement waiting for someone to put it in. How do you guys handle this, do you up your labor rates to compensate for the lost part margins?

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Dave Yates (PAH)

loss or gain

Rob,

There's been too many who are regular customers for us to walk away from the work. Marking up labor to compensate only works for bid situations. We perform this work for customers as a service, which is why it's doubly important for warranty issues to be understood up front.

As time goes by, I believe we'll be seeing labor rates adjusted/structured to bring in a more substantial portion of profits.

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Unknown

That's interesting, I've been wondering whether things are headed that way myself. Our own business model is about halfway there. We do find people are willing to pay for actual work, probably even moreso than part markups which are fairly abstract in value compared to "it'll take me this long to do right by you and we charge X an hour".

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Grumpy_2

Keeping focused

Sometimes I think that as contractors we lose sight of the goals we have set for our businesses. We grow to a point that it becomes necessary to take work, that we otherwise would not, just to keep our employees busy. Sometimes that means doing installations of customer provided products. That, in hindsight, is a no win situation. Somewhere around 1999, I sat with the accountants and realized that I had in the previous 10 years, written off several tens of thousands of dollars of uncollectibles. Further examination showed that close to 90% of that amount was in labor charges connected to owner provided products. Call it anything you want, but understand, it was MY money that was being written off. Money I could have used for additional business growth, or perhaps a vacation, or maybe a fatter IRA deposit and an earlier retirement date. It was a day of decision for me, from that day forward no product is installed by my company that is not sold by my company. Period!
Think about it for a minute; do you take the steak you bought at the meat market into your favorite restaurant and ask them to cook it? And if they were dumb enough to do so, would you expect them to assure its taste and flavor? Hell no, they won't do it, and will probably bounce your butt onto the sidewalk for asking. Is it really any different in our business? It should be obvious that the single item that makes us special (and worth every dollar of what what we charge for our services) is the level of knowledge that we have acquired and the manner in which we deliver it unto the customer. If we allow this insidious creeping and erosion of our product sales to continue, by installing customer provided product, then we shall soon be reduced to the status of labor only purveyors. When that happens, you will be competeing only on the basis of hourly rate, and not on the total quality and scope of services that your business offers. We are indeed in control of our own destiny, it is up to us to set the standards of operation for our industry. It is not to be left for Home Depot or Lowes or Trane, etc. to decide!