? about going off on my own

P. Smith

I have a couple of questions for all of you. hope fully you can give me any advise. ( sorry this post is kinda long)

First I've been working for an oil co for about four years. It's a 5 man operation (2 service men,1 full time oil truck driver, I do all the installs, and the owner jumps where ever needed) the company is in south eastern mass. I've gone and gotten my cdl, am pretty good a diagnosing and fixing heating system, but i prefer to be looked down in a customers basement installing the new boiler, furnace or tank. My boss gets plenty of installs, enough to keep me busy full time. Most jobs i'm able to do 100% by my self except for when the extra set of hands are needed.

My boss and i have been getting on each others nerves for the last year or so. The problems usually result from me doing to much work. I'm a neat freak, i keep my box truck organized and clean and i don't like it when somebody looking for something messes it up, whether it's a service guy grabbing an extra nipple or my boss. the things i do to p!$$ him off is i always spray the dings or scratches on new tanks after i install them, especially when the tank is in a visible area (utility room, garage, outside). My boss hates this he says its note worth the extra few dollars and my time ($3 and a 4 hour job becomes a 4:05 job) seems worth it to me. I'll also spray black pipe in the area around new boilers too. Today we had a big blow out over blades for my reciprocating saw. I get heavy duty ones that 1 blade will easily cut open 2-3 tanks and there fill/vent pipes. he rather i buy the ones that are half the price but takes a six pack to do what 1 or 2 of mine will do. that math shows my way is cheeper and im not stopping to change blades as often.

Today when i got back to the office we got in a big arqument. He was going over invoices and was p!$$ed about the paint and blades, even though like i said above i'm saving him money on the blades. he was also mad that i get the plastic booties to pull over my boots (a box of these last my close to a month i may use one pair a day, very rearly 2 pairs.) it got real heated in the office. every friday when i leave i wonder whether or not i'm gona go back on monday.

for about 1 1/2 years know i've bene thinking about going off on my own, doing strictly installs. I figure i can advertise for tanks and work out referal deals with local service companys. examble if adc oil service refers me to 123 main street and i installa boiler there. then i'll refer abc for service at that address. I figure this is probably the best way to work with multiple companies without one comp thinking im giving more work to another, you refer me the instal i'll refer you and only you to do there service/ oil delivery.

I've bene saving for this day for a while just in case. i have enough set a side to pay bills for a few months and buy the necessary tools. only tools on the box truck that are not mine are, pipe threader, test kit (its a nice bacharach one with the inferred printer) and the truck. I have my own truck a newer gmc 3500 with utility bed. so all i will need to get is threader, tester and the normal stock items (nipples, valves, fitings ....) only problem i see is my boss is a great friend of the family, my father and him have been best friends since childhood. out side of work we still get along great i have always refereed to him as my uncle and my 6 month old will hopefully too. He'll either get really p!$$ed at me and not talk to me or be very happy for me and do what ever he can to help me out its the way he is.

know my questions- i'm not writing this to find people who have work to refer, im just trying to get feed back of whether my business venture seems like a good idea. and worth it
1 does any one in here do what i would like to - strictly installs?
2 does any one in here refere alot of work out to install only companies?
please let me know what you think

thank you
paul smith

[Deleted User]

go for it!!

i say go for it.. i was wondering whether i wrote that page subconsciously.. you def have the right idea about referrals with customers and oil companies.. i say go for it.. what have you got to lose? if your boss of now is such a good friend, i'm sure he would take you back since you are the only installer he has now..what about troubleshooting controls? that would be a added plus to your new venture.. as for tools and material go to start, check out ebay for used tools.. i've bought plenty of good used tools at cheaper costs..material, first take some money that you have and get some of the basic stuff you use to install and repair systems..then as installs come in, if you need a set of 1 1/2 black nipples and a set of 2" nipples for a job, get 2 sets of each to have in your van as stock as you will use it again..soon it will build up.. and also, i am very much like you with the spray paint and the blades.. your boss should look at the fact that you obviously take pride in your finished product..as for the blades, if your boss cant figure out the basic knowledge of using better and less amounts of blades to do a job in 10 minutes as opposed to more blades to do it in 30 minutes than shame on him.. bite the bullet and take your time.. wear safety glasses!!!! i wish you all the luck i can.. go for it!!!!

Nron_11

selfemployment

take the time to learn how to do the books and advertizing and tax rules before you start you will save a lot of time and headeache in the future

lchmb

a few things

I work for a large company but also have a personal company name and insurance. (I do side work and want to protect my customers) You may want to look into the legal issue's in mass, the required insurance and setting up a buisness name. Those thing's take time and should be done while your still working. I would also recommend an accountant to explain what you need to do to set up a buisness account so that your personal assets are not affected from your buisness venture. I do agree with the other posts. You sound like a man who take's pride in his work. Go for it and remember to keep that grade of work, it's how you'll be known!!

joel_21

$$$$

A few thoughts from your post. First is, congrats on wanting to spend a litle extra time and $$ to do a nicer job . This is an attitude many young people are lacking today. Now here's the big one.Your boss has no idea whatsoever how to price a job. He is upset because you spent a little money on these jobs, if that is the case he is cutting it too close. So your first rule to learn is to not price the work like he does!! I see guys do this all the time . They leave a company that wasn't making $ # 1 on installs or service and then they go out and charge less , hello? This is esp true of oil companies. I have yet to meet an oil company owner who could open his books and prove to me that they made any money on installs at all. So if you charge what he does without suplemental oil sales I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll be banktrupt in a hurry. Keep this in my mind, as the legal and money end of things is what does in most contractors not the actual work itself. You need to get Ellen Rohrs books off this site they will help you learn what to charge and basic accounting. It is just simple math so don't be afraid of it. Be more afraid of what happens when the numbers don't add up. The idea from another poster about getting set up before you leave your current job is important. Take your time to get your ducks in a row before you leave. Or if you can't stand the guy then find another job at a better company for awhile. There is plenty of work in Mass you can have a job tommorrow.Consider working a few years at an HVAC company that knows what's going on $$$ wise .You may save yourself a lot of headaches. In Mass you will need Liability ins. , Workers comp, etc. For starters health insurance is going to run you 800-1200$ a month for a decent plan

Firedragon_4

Having been on all sides of the aisle,

I would normally say go for it too, but I won't. Why? Too much baggage for the most part, been the family thing a couple of times, BRUTAL!

First thing, is switch companies.

Then, follow the advice given here about how to run a business, etc. Make sure you have all of your tools bought and paid for first and have 6-9 months pay in the bank. One thing I've learned like the Gospel, promises and committments are easy to make, keeping them is not.

Once you go out on your own everything changes, FACT!

hr

You need a business plan first

and I have a deal for you! Go to www.barebonesbiz.com

There you will find some free downloadable pages to get you started. Lots of other getting started products.

hot rod

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JackFre

I can't keep a job...

It's a personality disorder. I have to be self employed. Your day is going to get a lot longer and you are going to develop a keen appreciation of your current bosses position. I cannot say he is right and I very much appreciate a good mechanics craft, BUT...he is dealing with a reality far different than you may realise.

Get professional help. No, not a psychiatrist (well maybe one of those too) but spend a bit of money on a good attorney. Not the bus chaser personal injury guy but a good business man. Look for a good accountant or at least a bookkeeper. You can do the books but that is cheap prof help and I can tell you that there are only 24 hrs in a day and it is amazing how they fill up with stuff you don't like having to deal with, but you must. Never, never, never give up check signing rights and do monitor the books closely. there are a lot of ways for people to get at your companies money. I won't get in to the details but sadly, i know I'm right. Your problem now is a person. Your problem as an owner is people. Go to a good supply house and find the owner for a confidential discussion of your desires. Yes, I did say the top guy. Listen to him. Ask about getting the most out of the relationship. This discussion will be helpful if you ask the right questions and listen. You may be surprised that he will offer you a job. He is looking for good people and many, perhaps most contractors do not understand what a distributor can bring to their business. I know I didn't.

As to your current boss, I would suggest that you do all you can to preserve the relationship. That way you will both enjoy it when you come back to him andtell him, "wow, now I understand".

IMHO, what this really comes down to is this. Do you have a fire in your belly to do this. If so, you can simply explain that you need to move on so you can move up. Ambition is required. He will understand that. Ask how he got started. What are your financial goals? Where do you wnat to be in 5, 10, 25 yrs? Look at the numbers. Put them down on a spreadsheet. You look at the numbers and it is a plan. You don't put them down and it is a dream.

the trick is to make money, and yes to do good work, give a good value, be a good citizen and all the rest...and to enjoy it. It is no fun doing the work and not making any money. As your business grows you will find yourself in the basement less and less. Taht may not be a bad thing. As time goes by i can assureyou that the cast iron block will not get lighter but your ability/desire to move it will lighten.

Good luck...and remember, "they can kill you but they can't eat you"

JohnNY3

Doing you a favor.

I think there are lots of people here thinking the same thing.
There's no polite way to put this so here it is:
As an employer, I can't tell you how many times I've interviewed job applicants who want to tell me they were let go from their previous position because their work was too good. Or they were doing the work of ten men by themselves or whatever they deem sellable to the presumably moronic interviewer they're sitting in front of.

You're post tells more about you than you realise.

Your question is about going out on your own.

My question to you is: Why are you having a heated debate with your boss about painting pipes?

He doesn't want you to paint the pipes.

Put the paint down.

He has his reasons.
If you need to paint a pipe, go work for a shop that paints pipes.
For now, do it his way.

You have no idea what running a business is like. If you did, you wouldn't be bothering your boss/father's friend with such petty nonsense.

Paul Pollets

Entrepreneurial Seizures...

Can be cured by reading Ellen's bok or especially Michael Gerber's "The E-Myth" or "The E-Myth Revisited". The mechanical trades are very risky, require significant capital to startup, can't be run easily as a "one-truck/1 man show" and usually takes all of your time at great sacrifice to family. If you're of a high skillset, you'd be much better off finding a great shop to work for that will appreciate your efforts. Remove the "technician's blinders" and see the effort as a business venture, rather than an alternative to your current boss. Seek wise business counsel as the failure rate for new companies or startups is usually 95% within 3 years. Those are not good odds.

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Bud_14

Traded

I traded the Big seat in for a "timecard" about three months ago, After 4 years on my own...There actually is Life after 4pm


Good Luck on what ever you decide to do..it wasn't for me!


Bud

TheSheetMetalShop.Com

Dave Mayer -3 Sons Heating

Paul:
As hard as it may seem to believe, I was exactly where you are...EXACTLY! I actually live in the same area as you. I chose to go out on my own. I actually had to, I have 3 boys and was awarded full custody at that time. My boss did not understand and basically it was the final straw.
I, also figured that there had to be work for a good installr. I knew the profit margins and figured that 4-5 boilers a month would do me just fine. My jobs would be perfect, nobody telling me to cut corners.
Well, that was my fantasy. Health insurance, liability insurance, advertising, vehicle maintenance, tools, helpers, supplies...that was reality. Some days were great and I mean great. But a couple of customers not paying on time or at all choked the life out of me. They did not pay me for the jobs so how could I pay for the parts. I did not have the capitol a large company has so I tried to go without food or heat-you know the little things. Until eventually I could not keep up any longer. Luckily and thanks to God I was offered a management position at an oil company.
Have a talk with your boss. Offer to buy into the install and service department. Try to mend the fence before jumping into the next pasture. Best of luck.
Dave

P. Smith

thanks

wow i got a lot more info than i thought i would. I'm still planing on taking this big step. On monday morning i'm gona talk to him and give him my 2 weeks, this will get alot of the installs scheduled done. lukily for me my wife makes enough to cover our bills. my check has always bene for savings, cover vacations stuff like that. she also provides the health insurance. our savings is definatly enough to by the litle equipment i still need, cover all the insurances, and pay for the firs few installs incease of late payment or no payment.

As far as time goes i think i'll have more. Yeah i may be working later, but at least i'll be working late at home. I would like to stay just about stricktly installs. So if i want to schedule work so that i get to stay home on fridays with the baby in stead of going to daycare, I CAN - that is a big seller for me. Doing installs i know im not going to be working from 8am to 10pm unless i want to.
as far as billing goes i know i can charge alot more than my boss and still stay competative with other companys.

i would appreciate any more coments or thoughts.
thank you

Tony_8

No pays, slow pays

Write a downpayment into your contracts. I ALWAYS get at least half. If they don't trust you with half why would you trust them with all of it ? Don't make it so you starve to go to work. No down, no work. That way you're not on the hook for all the material expenses.

Robert O'Connor_6

Thats good advice

I get 2/3 down when i show up with material. If I have any doubts I call the bank. No point in getting stuck. No future in it.

As far as painting pipes go . It sound like you want your jobs to look the best. You can be proud of that . Now go out and make it pay! The wall is full of tradesman that take the utmost pride in their work

Regards

Robert

ME

Weezbo

Theres alot more to the undertaking than met your eye....

Being a one man band is a lot of work. When you work WITH someone you have an inkling of what the anon. poster was saying. As long as you are thinking you are working for someone else, you still need to grasp the idea that should the business fail you too will be out of a job. So,when you are asked to do some small thing and make a mountain out of the molehill with the owner ,hes likely to be dissapointed with you and not especially want to hear ANY of your ideas at all.i worked With another guy for years,he used to say Put the Broom Down they aint paying us for THAT! I agreed to dissagree and would clean the place up real quick after i picked up my tools...well,first the GC said"your work is looking tidier..Then the new perspective buyers said That is some beautiful boiler work...then my buddy said Hmmm... the inspector said our work always looks clean...and over the years we went from 2 houses a year to 12 and now i am on my own doing 8 complete homes ayear and 5 for him and two customs for another contractor and all kinds of boiler change outs and system upgrades with a couple guys my age.my buddy is retiring and so i get a promotion,now i get 16 houses with our original contractor and 8 with my buddy and a couple from two other contractors who do good work. this isnt an easy road game to say the least...now i will need some real help to do all that.this means i either Listened and made the right decisions or i made a drastic error and i fall flat on my keester. quite often i feel good about the work and a couple times my body told me to take a break...only thing is when you must fulfill your contract you cant be taking a break. I would encorage you to take off on your own if you think two sawzall blades and a can of flat black are going to distinguish Your work from your cometition...

ScottMP

P. Smith

I was reading your last post. You will be working when You want to, doing the installs the way you want. Getting home on time and maybe taking a day off when You want to.

I have been in business for myself for over twenty years now.

If it works out the way you think, LET ME KNOW ! I'll start to follow your business plan.

I think you have a Big suprise coming.

This is not to sound mean but, .. been there, done that, worked like a **** to get the tee-shirt.

Scott

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Darin Cook_3

I must be getting better at understanding Weezbo-neese

The language can be a challenge. Weez makes some good points. Working on your own has alot of ups and downs to it. But in the end you can only hold yourself responsible for your failures or your successes. While I consider myself a master craftsman, that does not help much on the business side. SO MUCH to learn. You are basically learning another profession. The decision to go out on your own is not one to be taken lightly. But the resources available to you now compared to say even 10 years ago is night and day. Going out on your own can be done but make sure you are truly willing to give it what it takes. Good Luck.





Darin

Weezbo

Milne, what is \"Day Off\"?

is that a special word you made up or is it like a shang hai hua word from somewhere in or around the Shang Hai area of CHina? i can speak some Mandrin buh never encountered the word....:)

Weezbo

Pre-cambrian.....?

oh , Oki ,.... Give me a Hint ....*~/:)

Weezbo

Heh?

Boston Boiler

Sounds like you have a plan, your wife has your bills and heath insurance covered, that will give you a head start.
You need a plan also for the fridays off when one of those new installs goes down on a 10* day, can't take the baby with you. Yesterday (Sunday afternoon) I was replacing a burner motor on a no heat/no domestic water call (tankless coil) Today I was home at 3:00pm with no calls. Not the hours of choice. Weather your paycheck is pocket or vacation money doesn't matter if your going to keep your customers and keeping customers doesn't allow you to pick the hours or days you will be repairing work that you have installed. Just something to think about before you quit
your stable job.........ROOKIE