2 pipe system

Steamhead

the radiators likely don't need vents. The air should vent thru an overhead return line which would have a vent on it. How about some pics of a radiator and any odd-looking devices near the boiler?

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Joe_48

2 pipe system

First I just wanted to thank all that have helped me so far. Now that I figured out that it is a 2 pipe system, I need to find out whether it is the 2-pipe system that utilizes the steam air valves. The house was built in the 1930's. When we bought the house a year ago, none of the rads had a valve on them. We had to use an "easy out" to get the old plugs out. Actually there are places for the valves in 4 places (two at the tops at each end and two at in the middle of each end). The heating guy I had "fix" it put one valve on the side where the steam goes out of the rad in the hole in the middle. I called to tell him what I have learned from you all and he said that I need the valves because regardless of the air being able to go back to the main, it still needs to escape because in my basement there wasn't a part, I forget the name, to release that air. Thanks in advance.

Joe_48

2 pipe system with air vents? (picture)

Here is a pic of one of my rads (each end). Let me know if you guys have any ideas if this 2-pipe system should have air vents. There is no mechanism by the boiler.

Fred Harwood

Picts

The pipe from the bottom of the radiator thru the floor goes to what pipes? A steam pipe or a return low on the back of the boiler?

Perhaps another picture of those pipes.

Joe_48

I believe it goes to a steam pipe, but I will get pics tonight when I get home.

Steamhead

Looks like a Vapor system

which has either a water seal in the return-side bushing, or an orifice in the supply valve. Either can be used to keep steam out of the dry return.

Take some pics of the return piping from the elbow back to the boiler and we'll see what's going on there. Also see if you can find a name on that radiator shutoff valve.

BTW, that radiator is older than the 1930s. It is a Column type, looks like the Peerless brand made by American Radiator Co. Column rads went out of production in the mid 1920s. And if this is a Vapor system, that air vent is not needed.

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Joe_48

Ok, got some pics.
First, I checked where the pipe out of the rad went to the basement. It went to the broiler. The first pic is of a "Vac-Hurivent?" Well thats what it says on it. Also says "No. 862 Arco Detroit, Patent 2146696 Series 53. This is on the end of a pipe that comes off of the pipe which goes directly into the bottom of the broiler (2nd picture). The third picture is of the system. You can see the green "Vac-Hurivent" in the upper center of the pic. When I touch the top of it, it has some kind of moveable nipple. So with this said, do I need these pesky air vents on my rads? Thanks in advance.

Steamhead

The \"Vac-Hurivent\"

was made by American-Standard. It was a main vent that would not let air return once it was out. This worked great with coal firing, since the diminishing coal fire would cause a vacuum to form in the system, and you could generate steam at lower temperatures. However, it doesn't work well at all with oil or gas.

That Vac-Hurivent is connected to the dry return coming back to the radiators. I can't see from the pics if there is a vent on the ends of the steam pipes going out to the radiators. You need vents on both with this system. And you do NOT need vents on the radiators- the vent at the Vac-Hurivent location takes care of the radiators.

I'd change that Vac-Hurivent to a standard vent that doesn't hold vacuum. The size of vent to use there depends on how much radiation the system has. The vents for the steam mains are based on their length and diameter- measure and post the info here and we'll tell you what you need.

Also, it doesn't look like that boiler is piped properly. Take a full-frontal pic so we can be sure. This may also be part of the problem.

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Joe_48

When you say I need vents on the "ends" of the steam pipes going out to the radiators where do you mean. I ask because it seems as if there are no "ends" to the pipes except where that Vac-hurivent is. The pipes all connect together. Does this sound right or am I just not noticing the "ends?" I don't see any vents or other devices for that matter within the pipe system.

Additionally, I have 7 radiators in the house, if that is what you mean by how much radiation in the system.

And probably a question that really makes me look like a new homeowner (and possibly idiot), what pipes are considered the mains.

Sorry for all the elementary questions... the second day I was here I ordered the "We got steam heat" book and I am chomping at the bit to start reading. I am hoping I can just get these elementary questions answered here instead of hiring another guy for $60/hour (and spending another $250 for labor). I would like to save myself some money, now that the first guy told me I needed those air vents which seems to be a waste of time and money. Thanks.

Steamhead

Somewhere on that system

the main horizontal pipe(s) supplying all the take-off pipes that feed the radiators, will end at a vertical pipe dropping to or near the floor. That's the "end of the steam main". You need a vent there. If there is none, it will have to be added. You could get away without one in the Coal Era since the fire burned all day- once the air was out, it stayed out. Not so with oil or gas.

With 7 radiators you could use a Gorton #1 or Hoffman #75 to replace the Vac-Hurivent, plus whatever is needed on the steam mains.

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