Buderus Heating Programs

Paul_28

Are any of the Heating Programs necessary on the R2107 Controller? I have programmable room thermostats and prefer to use these for the day and night setback. Which is the better method? To use the programmable room thermostats and empty the R2107 programs or use the programs in the 2107 and not program the room thermostats...

S Ebels

????

What type of system is the Buderus connected to? Baseboard, Radiators, Radiant?? Are you using constant circ and the outdoor reset capability of the 2107?

It'll make a lot of difference as to what would work best.

Paul_28

R2107

The Gas boiler is the G124X with the outdoor reset. It is connected to fin baseboard without the constant circulation.

lchmb

IMHO

The only thing that come's to mind is you are giving up an incredible amount of control by removing the 2107. The unit work's with an outdoor sensor to maintain boiler temp as needed. If you remove this control and make it a hot start boiler you are going to see an increase in your fuel usage. It will also (depending on how you control your zone's) take priority away from your domestic HW tank, which if your usage is high may be a factor. That's just a couple thought's that come to mind (which is shut off right now)....:)

Paul_28

2107

I was not very clear with the original question. I do not intend to remove the 2107. It’s the heating programs in the 2107 and the programs in my room thermostats that seem to be redundant. I am not sure which I should stay with.

lchmb

ahhh

Then in that case I would say your better with the boiler control controlling the boiler. Since this device was built to take into all consideration's for the unit it sit's on. The only thing the thermostat does is drop the temp in the evening and turn it back up in the morning. But then again I am a fan of the Buderus control It's a nice system...IMHO...:)

Mark Eatherton1

Replace your thermostat

with a BFU unit from Buderus so that the 2107 can see whats going on in the room, and take adavantage of the 2107's capabilites. There are things that don't meet the eye, and that only the programming engineers know about that make this control "package" one of the most intelligent in the world. If I tell you any more, I'll have to kill both of us (just kidding...) Seriously though, the BFU is worth the money and will alow the 2107 to "learn" about your home and system and make it respond EXACTLY as you expect it to.

We don't sell a 2107 without the BFU...

ME

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

ScottMP

Paul

I would think it would have to do with what type of controll you want. The logomatic ste backs the whole house. Your thermostats set back each individually zone. Do you wish to set back rooms during that day and keep others warmer , maybe a home office ? Then stay with the thermostats.

If all you are doing is setting them back at night then shut them off and let the logomatic do it. Its a different concept and one that took my slow brain to grasp

The logomatic sets back by picking a lower heating cruve then the day time curve. Therefor the house is supplyed with a temprature that is not high enough to reach the thermostate setting. You need 150° to meet 68°, so in set back the boiler gives you, say, 135°. You never reach 68° and the boiler cruise's.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

dconnors

2107 and Baseboard

Constant circ is not the best application with baseboard unless the baseboard has been slightly oversized. I am not a big fan of setback Tstats because of the thermal mass of the house losing too much and trying to recover. Scott is wrong that you need 150 deg. to get 68 on the Tstat. However any temp below 130 makes for a very slow rise. I would do reset with a vertical shift of the curve and no setback Tstat. Just my opinion.

S Ebels

What he said

Mark's right. The BFU room sensor and the 2107 working in tandem make for a highly intelligent heating system control. The two pieces seamlessly integrate everything that goes on as far as home comfort is concerned.

ScottMP

Just to clarify

I was using those numbers as examples. I should have said "Lets say you need ..."

Next time I'll take out the book.



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Paul_28

cirulator pump

I wonder how the circulator pump will hold up under constant circulation???

S Ebels

I beg to differ

Properly setup with outdoor (2107) and indoor (BFU) sensors controlling water temps, constant circ is desireable, do-able and as efficient as you can get with a medium to high temp system. I'll agree that oversizing the BB allows you to run lower temps. That being said, one can still realize the efficiency and comfort of constant circulation if the system is set up intelligently. The amount of BB matters only in that it needs to be sufficient at design conditions.

dconnors

Unfortunately.........

Medium to high temp systems dont work well with a low to high heating curve even if its constant circ. offsetting the curve will produce a parallel shift which will reduce your effciency. Constant circulation is used in Europe because most systems are high mass which is the best design for a reset control.

Weezbo

Is Alaska in Europe ,now?

ScottMP

Let me get this straight

"offsetting the curve will produce a parallel shift which will reduce your effciency. "

Is'nt that what the logomatic does in night setback ?

Am I not understanding the control or am I waisting energy at night.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

dconnors

Night setback

The control shifts the curve downward during night setback.

Paul_28

confused

I am getting confused. I don not have Buderus room sensors. How do I set up the 2107 and the on-off room thermostats? Some sample numbers would be helpful.

dconnors

Sorry for the confusion

Need to know more about your system and your preferences before I can make any recommendations.

Paul_28

I have

the G124 Gas Boiler and fin baseboard, Is there any other info I can give you?? Thanks

dconnors

please call me

1-800-buderus

ScottMP

So Mr. Conners

Are you saying its inefficient during night time set back ??

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

dconnors

That would be Connors

And no i am not saying the control is inefficient during night setback. What response did i give that would prompt you to think that?

dconnors

That would be Connors

And no i am not saying the control is inefficient during night setback. What response did i give that would prompt you to think that? Actually if you have a high temp system (160-180) you have to shift the curve upward to achieve this, thereby eliminating the low temp efficiency savings.

ScottMP

"offsetting the curve will produce a parallel shift which will reduce your effciency. "

Thats what you posted.

I asked if during the nighttime setback dos'nt the control shift the curve to a parallel curve mirroring the daytime curve, but shifted downward, therefor lowering the output of the boiler so as not to hit the set point of the thermostat ?

You said " offsetting the curve will produce a parallel shift which will reduce your efficiency".

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

dconnors

you need to read all that i said

i was referring to a high temp system. this is worse than my neighbors at the picket fence. ha

ScottMP

allright , but you started it

1) I have seen and have installed copper fin jobs with a reset curve. I'll agree not as good as high mass but still a fuel savings and a slighlty better comfort.

2) I agree high mass boilers and panel rad. work much better with a characteristic curve.

3) Say high to Mark, Joe and Lou.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

S Ebels

Pardon my .......density?

I am not following what you mean by parallel shift of the heating curve. When I dial ina system of this type, the bottom is shifted up according to what is needed while the curve remains the same. I would raise the bottom to 100* and shoot for a 1.5 curve for example. Both of these factors are dependent on how much BB there is per required heat load. Along with this I incorporate some type of indoor feedback. Maybe a BFU or room stats operating circ relays for multiple zones. In doing this the stat becomes merely a high limit. The heating system is otherwise always "on". Once the system I have set up this way are "fine tuned", the circ usually runs 90% of the time at a minimum. It has worked excellent for me in all cases and provided very satisfactory results comfort-wise.