Foam Staplers

Brian

How many of you guys use foam staplers instead of wire mesh and wire ties.My one builder has always used bubble foil and mesh.With the jump in steel prices and a drop in foam insulation he is looking to switch to foam insulation.
So what I would like to know are the pros and cons of the staplers.Which model do you recommend?What length of staples do you use?

Thanks
Brian

Mark Eatherton1

The cons...

I've seen poured concrete from the cement truck chute BLOW the staples right out of the foam. Tube running wildly EVERY WHERE... and nothing I could do about it. Theres even enough hydraulic force behind cement coming out of a tube (pumped) that it will tear the staples right out of the foam. Its amazing what happens when you're not there watching...

We use 6X6 10GA welded wire mesh in 8 X 20 foot flat sheets with conventional metal wire ties. Maybe someone will get smart and start making 6X6 8 X 20 foot flat sheets out of some sort of plastic...

ME

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Weezbo

one thing is this.....

another is that.... you need to dispell the misunderstanding with which the builders is currently enamoured...insulation is great idea,radiant is a great idea, however....wire mesh and rebar ,fibermesh, ....Now That is The right idea for solid structural concrete.........as for staples rehau has some red ones that pluggerate white foam with aluminum back and wirsbo sells some black staples that go into the blue foam why i seem to feel they work better in different foam boards i can only mark down as experience on pushing the staples in by hand. I really dont find much difference in speed or ease of work flow with the staple gun that shoots the staples into the insulation.

S Ebels

Pros and Cons

> How many of you guys use foam staplers instead

> of wire mesh and wire ties.My one builder has

> always used bubble foil and mesh.With the jump in

> steel prices and a drop in foam insulation he is

> looking to switch to foam insulation. So what I

> would like to know are the pros and cons of the

> staplers.Which model do you recommend?What length

> of staples do you use?

>

> Thanks Brian

S Ebels

Pros and Cons

We find that pex with staples goes down about 1/3 quicker with the same crew as using ties on mesh. The situation Mark described has never happened to us but I can see where it could. We staple about every 2 1/2' and use 4 staples on a 180* bend, 3 on a 90.

We have had problems with the concrete guys who use mesh. Some of them try to pull it up so it's in the middle of the pour and we have wound up with tube exposed or just below the surface. Either method takes good communicaton between all involved.

hr

In a perfect radiant world

the tube would be in the middle of a 4" pour or 2" from the top in a thicker slab. This can never happen when you staple down to the foam. If that's considered a "con"

In reality, unless the mesh is supported on chairs, or fastened to rebar suspended on chairs, I suspect most radiant tube ends up near the bottom of the pour.

In a 4" slab the tube depth probably isn't noticable in the system performance. In a 5, 6, or deeper structural slab it starts to catch up with you in performance degradgation (sp)

Personally the sheet mesh, as ME mentioned, with the ClipTie tool is by far the fastest method on the planet. And the loose ties do allow the tube to float off the mesh a 1/2" or so. I cringe when I see installers use those wire tie spinners and over tighten the ties into the pex. We just spin the wire ties by hand two twists. This holds just as well as a half dozen spins with a spinner, and is much faster.

Those foam staples REALLY hold in InsulTarp, by the way. Those woven fibers in the Tarp never let go of the barb.

hot rod

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