Anyone Want to Try FHVs (Floor Heat Valves)??

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Particularly with a Vitodens?

Prefer no more than 70 mbh loss for the first job.

Homeowner or contractor makes NO difference to me, but if a homeowner you MUST be using a contractor for boiler installation at a MINIMUM and you MUST be able to conduct an ACCURATE room-by-room heat loss calculation.

Let me know. Will do all I can possibly do to help (without being there) at no charge. Travel possible, but unless you're close to Swampeast MO, you'll have to pay and be utterly prepared. You'll get room-by-room temp control and likely the slickest, simplest and most comfortable system you've EVER seen or felt! Cost should prove similar to a Vitodens system with mixing valve(s), thermostats, zone valves, multiple circulators, etc., etc., etc.,

Unknown

Hey Mike

Got a link to info that I can learn from? I've only briefly looked into them (I didn't know the acronym, so I HAD to look it up).

To others; Mike's pretty sharp on this subject, I've worked with him through e-mail on baseboard, TRVs, and low temp heating. I've been lagging behind his learning curve a tad, but he's going in a sweet direction for wringing the most BTUs from a delivery system with the least loss possible and the utmost in control.

I'm sure staying tuned.

Noel

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Here's Closest Link

Look for "FHV" in the detailed product list.

FHVs

Spent at least a half hour on the phone with Danfoss America a few months back regarding these valves. While they've been in my catalog/price list for YEARS they tell me that they're EXTREMELY uncommon in the U.S. All data is in metric and our familiar units are unavailable.

lchmb

ok

Color me silly but where is Swampeast MO?? And I'll keep it in mind just don't have any application this would fit right now...

gregg jackson_6

same idea........

Mike,

I just bought a new place that has scorched air and will be converting to radiant floors and panel rads. I plan on using a Vitodens, staple-up and the exact valves you show here. I'll keep ya posted.

Gregg

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Cape Girardeau, in Southeast Missouri on Mississippi river just above the "armpit" (the bootheel). Moniker comes from our summer weather and the fact that we're on the hill country on the edge of millions of acres of swamp drained around 1900.

Geologists insist that Cape Girardeau used to be the mouth of the Mississippi. Big ridge (Crowley Ridge) begins here and extends down into NE Arkansas.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Sorry. Should have qualified further. Staple-up is NOT suitable. Flow requirements are MUCH too high even if heat loss is fairly low.

Tube-in-slab. Thermofin. Warmboard. That wild structural aluminum stuff that goes between sleepers (sorry--can't remember name--Rehau RauPanel???). Maybe Climate Track (hope that's the right name).

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Alphabet Soup

Not certain if "Floor Heat Valve" is the proper explanation for FHV as I've never seen it.

Considering what they do, it's extremely likely.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

That 70 MBH Loss

Is somewhat understated. Up to 100 MBH from a Manual J calculation should be OK. Indirect DHW fine to include a high peak demand system.

Mi39ke_2

Thanks, Mike

Hi Mike,

Starting to design a RauPanel Job. New construction. Very, very tight. Around 30MBH loss. Currently looking at adapting the Vitodens, would like to use the Combi-unit.

It might fit your bill. Love your input on all channels, of course. Contact me on ProgMech or email.

Just finished our first new system using the Combi-unit and panel radiators with TRVs--no prim/sec, of course. Fingers crossed, but I think we will do fine.

Michael Ward--hvacew@execpc.com

Unknown

they look like wireless telestats to me; how do these differ from manifold valve operators?

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

They're a TRV-like two-way valve with a "twist". The air temp modulating version uses standard RA-2000 operators. The panel temp modulating version uses a special operator. Key word there is modulating. These are NOT digital devices--flow is infinitely variable.

The difference is a built-in flow adjustment. Because it's a simple two-way valve and both room size and room loss vary, and because to keep things simple you want to work with a SINGLE supply temperature you adjust each FHV so that head loss is the same in all loops regardless of length. Why? Because with the air temp modulating version, panel temperature is unlimited. You want to ensure that even when you crank an operator that panel temp can't rise too high even in the smallest loops/areas. Without that adjustment, smaller loops would receive high flow, low delta-t and excessive floor temp.

IDEALLY suited for a variable speed, weather responsive pump as the weather itself will put in its own limit on pumping ability.

jerry scharf_2

When you do this we can compare data

Mike,

Please keep me informed with how your stuff works out.

I am building something like what you are talking about. I am a controls guy, so the zones are controlled by a computer, proportional outputs and globe valves. I want to experiment with things beyond responding to current temperature, so the FHV wouldn't give me the ability to tinker. The system will be set up P/S with a munchkin (working on getting the 0-10V control to allow me to control the water temp directly) and a fixed delta pressure variable speed system pump.

By doing most of the controls myself and using lower cost parts, I'm working to keep the control point cost below $150 total (valve, analog output, computer, temperature input.) I haven't worked out the room displays yet. Given that I have just about 1 zone per room, this is important.

I'm also doing the same thing with the A/C system, proportional dampers driven off the computer to send the air just where it's needed. The air handler is variable speed with 0-10V control, so it looks just about the same as the heating. The only difference with the cooling is that the air speed controls the humidity as well as the supply temp, so it's a bit more of a dance. The A/C compressor I'm using has an EER of 18, and since the coil is designed to run fully flooded, the humidity reduction is outstanding.

I hope to be building up the control clusters in a couple weeks, and have the system running about 6 weeks from now. There's a huge amount to be done between now and then on the house and the mechanical planning.

jerry