New Chimney Lining?

jim murtaugh

i would forget about doing anything w/the existing chimney,you can have a qualified hvac contractor pull a flexable liner down to you gas burning appliance for about 1/4 of the cost.if your particular situation allows.

Thad English

New Chimney Lining?

I just had my flues inspected for the first time and found out that they are in sad shape. The terra cotta lining is crumbling above the roofline (about 9'). Below the roofline we are in good shape. The chimney guy, who comes highly recommended, says that he will knock out the crumbling terra cotta lining in the entire 32 foot flue, then reline it with hi-temp concrete, and finally, install a stainless steel chimney liner. (I just about keeled over when I got the estimate from them.) From everyone's experience, is the high temp concrete necessary or can we just send the liner down in the existing flue? Can we knock out only the crumbling pieces and not do the hi-temp concrete? Any thoughts or experiences would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Thad

Thad English

crumbles

Thanks Jim. My main concern about doing that is that a piece of the terra cotta could fall and damage the liner. And then I'd have to do it all over again. Or is the flexible liner a tough piece of metal? Or would I just ask the installer politely (and buy him a case of beer) to just remove the loose pieces while he is up there?

Ken_8

I would simply

tear down the chimney to the damaged spot and re-line the upper aspect with new fire-clay (a/k/a terra-cotta) and be done with it.

A mason would approach it from that angle. A chimney guy would do what he has already suggested and a heating contractor loves aluminum and stainles liners.

Unless it is an outside walled chimney and you have plans to put a high effieicny boiler in, I'd stick with the same stuff that lasted the last 100 years. Fire clay.

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Thad English

Thanks for the idea about the mason. The Chimney is about 40' up on a 12-12 pitch roof. I think the cost of the scaffolding rental would put the chimney tear down out of the budget. But it can't hurt to get a guy to come out and give me a price, though.

Jason Horner

You may be financially ahead by removing the chimney above the roof line entirely and installing a new sidewall vented boiler/furnace vs. rebuilding the chimney.

If the esthetics of you home don't demand a chimney or you don't have a fireplace flue sharing the same masonry, this may be a viable alternative for you.

H. Green

Remove broken tiles

Even though the UL standard for chimney relining systems have a puncture test, it is a good idea to remove any broken or badly crumbled tiles, before relining with a stainless steel liner. If the proper size liner will fit inside the remaining sound tiles, there is no reason to remove them. Unless there are significant structural issues with the chimney, there is no need for the intermediary hi-temperature cement layer you were offered, especially if this is a chimney dedicated to a modern boiler.

Dale

What being vented?

When you say flues is one of them for a wood burning fireplace or stove, if so the hi temp concrete or hi temp liner if correct for a class A chimney. For oil or gas the modern liners work fine as long as installed per instructions with a listed cap. If gas I like to insulate the liner for long runs. Liner companies have listen insulation.

Thad English

relining

Thanks for the input Mr. Green. The flue is dedicated to the 4 year old natural gas fired Peerless steamer. I think I may be leaning toward the stainless liner without the concrete and the terra cotta removal.
How do I determine what the proper size for the stainless liner would be (so that I know if it will fit down the existing 8" x 13" flue)? Is it an easy calculation based on BTU/hr and height of chimney?

Thad English

one flue on this chimney venting a 300+k/hr natural gas peerless steam boiler. Nothing else attached to this flue.

Ken_8

Is there a freestanding

water heater also connected to the chimney? May there be in the future?

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Thad English

forgot about that

yes, there is a hot water heater venting to that flue.

don_52

Indeed, don't forget...


the water heater! Ken's right on the money there.

this summer we had a new steamer put in our new / old
house.

a few years before the chimney had been rebuilt about
2 feet down, hence no concern.

a stainless steel liner was indicated.

"good" sheet metal, mason and hvac/boiler
contractors are qualified to size the new liner.

the folks who did ours are "certified sweeps", the
owner sends all his people to classes every year.

the liner was sized for the boiler and water heater
plus some headroom should we opt to install either
2 heaters or 1 larger and still be in spec per NFPA.

some folks still like to see the "standing water heater"
on an install like ours, protects against condensation
and no "cold starts" in the flue.

sweeps website

http://www.csia.org/index.htm

be safe, don

don_52

Indeed, don't forget...


the water heater! Ken's right on the money there.

this summer we had a new steamer put in our new / old
house.

a few years before the chimney had been rebuilt about
2 feet down, hence no concern.

a stainless steel liner was indicated.

"good" sheet metal, mason and hvac/boiler
contractors are qualified to size the new liner.

the folks who did ours are "certified sweeps", the
owner sends all his people to classes every year.

the liner was sized for the boiler and water heater
plus some headroom should we opt to install either
2 heaters or 1 larger and still be in spec per NFPA.

some folks still like to see the "standing water heater"
on an install like ours, protects against condensation
and no "cold starts" in the flue.

even though the NFPA publishes guidlines there's as
much art, intuition and experience that goes into it,
local winter temps, wind loads etc.

if the contactor's "guts" tell him that something else
is warrented "do heed their advice".

CO / backdrafting is no joke.

sweeps website

http://www.csia.org/index.htm

be safe, don

don_52

Indeed, don't forget...

the water heater! Ken's right on the money there.

don't forget your makeup / combustion air
requirements also, these must also be
correct for complete combustion and venting.

this summer we had a new steamer put in our new / old
house.

a few years before the chimney had been rebuilt about
2 feet down, hence no concern.

a stainless steel liner was indicated, as was
review of "free area" for combustion air.

"good" sheet metal, mason and hvac/boiler
contractors are qualified to size the new liner.

the folks who did ours are "certified sweeps", the
owner sends all his people to classes every year.

the liner was sized for the boiler and water heater
plus some headroom should we opt to install either
2 heaters or 1 larger and still be in spec per NFPA.

some folks still like to see the "standing water heater"
on an install like ours, protects against condensation
and no "cold starts" in the flue.

even though the NFPA publishes guidlines there's as
much art, intuition and experience that goes into it,
local winter temps, wind loads etc.

if the contactor's "guts" tell him that something else
is warrented "do heed their advice", if their good they
will "make the case", a little bit more than just
dropping in a liner, remember Jim's caveat from above,
"if your particular situation allows".

CO / backdrafting is no joke.

sweeps website

http://www.csia.org/index.htm

be safe, don

Thad English

thx

Thanks, Don. I guess I'll be calling a mason AND an HVAC guy to give me some estimates to take care of the issue.