Indirect Water is Waste of Money

Sweat Hog

Was all set to get one when I visited a home with one. Boiler's short cycling all the time. Why? Every time they
turn on the tap, the nice warm water in the indirect tank is replaced with water from the street that's at least 40 degrees cooler. Those standby losses that manufacturers proudly advertise are meaningless. Unless you temper the supply water with grey water or solar, it seems to be a waste of money and inefficient compared to a stand alone water heater. Plus you have to keep the boiler on in the summer. I'll keep my money in my pocket.

Nron_9

Indirect

the boiler souds like it could use some work and maybe a control that allows for domestic priority , this will keep the boiler from short cycles and will give higher production to the hot water tank when the boiler is in use , tekmar or danfoss have great controls to help you

Mark Hunt

Wow!


I guess the stand-by loss of a stand alone are less?

And you don't have to fire a stand alone in the summer?

Now how about some hard numbers from your exhaustive research to back up your "findings"?

Mark H

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Floyd_7

did ya think to check for a dip tube??????

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
any darn water heater will do that with no dip tube!!!!!
Your'erns thar friend has gots hisself a big darn PROBLEM!!!!
PLEASE engage your God given brain before you go off like that......

Floyd

Unknown

you are mistaken

Sweat Hog,

It seems that your system was done incorrectly. If it were done properly you would not be experiencing this problem. Please don't tell me that a stand alone water heater is better. That's just foolish. We ALL know better.

Feel free to go to the FAP link and find someone who knows what they are doing.

Keeping the boiler on in the smmer is the besst thing you can do. Do the research. Indirect is the way to go unless you have a low demand. in that case an on demand water heater is best. Seldome that is the case as we as Americans love copious amounts of DHW.

Gary

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Unknown

Hey Floyd

I bet there is a 007 driving it with 3/4" boiler loop piping, too.

Noel

tommyoil

here we go again

I am going to watch this one from the sidelines. I gotta go rip out my indirect.

ScottMP

We're not going anywhere Tommy

We all know better

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lchmb

phew

And here I was all nervous. Just put one in my house, went from coil to tank. And my darned boiler wont run anymore. Only comes on once a day and that is after my son takes a short 30 minute shower....Must be I did something wrong..:(

Mad Dog

Couldv'e fooled us .........and the laws of

physics and efficiency. Mad Dog

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Sweat Hog

Still doesn't make sense

First, you buy an indirect tank that costs more than a stand alone water heater (2 or 3 times more if you get
one of those fancy stainless steel tanks) then you ad a couple of hundred dollars for fancy valve/pump controls to give your indirect priority over other zones, then there's the cost of extra piping and a pump. It still doesn't make financial sense.

Glycol Bob_2

Got us a smartie

Hey just heat a pot of water on the stove. All the heat goes in the house "very efficient", you use less water to wash "water conservation", put the drain thru a piece of baseboard "heat reclaimer". You MUST understand that is a financial winner. Sweat Hog, I hope every morning you give thanks for involuntary body functions.

Jeff Lawrence_24

Yep

That's right.

And that indirect tank has a lot longer warranty than the bottom fired tanks AND a lot more insulation. Not to mention the recovery rate, if it's sized correctly....

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Bruce M.

On Demand Oil-fired Hot Water Heater

may be more efficient and economical than an indirect hot water system. I have installed one and I have an endless supply of hot water without the need to heat a large tank of water that would be rarely used.

Boilerpro_3

Sounds like it may be....

a copper tube boiler with a high pump head heat exchanger in the tank with too small a pump.

Boilerpro

Robert O'Connor_7

Maybe....

He's got that new "Breakthrough technology" system, and, could you guess, It doesn't work. I got a indirect in my own house and it's been working great, recovers in 8 - 13 minutes (depending on incoming of course). Maybe you can get someone here to fix your ill performing indirect...Robert O'Connor/NJ

Constantin

Never mind the energy savings...

...granted, if you're firing a IDWH with a 80% efficient boiler, the savings over a 60% efficient gas water heater aren't great, particularly if the boiler has a lot of mass and it's summertime (in fact, depending on water demand it may cost more to use an IDWH under those circumstances).

On the other hand, a low-mass condensing boiler is hard to beat in applications like IDWH heating because they'll always be operating at something like 95+% thermal efficiency. If you have an expensive fuel source like LP, it can pay off in a hurry.

If you're ecologically minded, a GSHP can dump the heat of the house in summertime into the IDWH with a desuperheater. That's free heat, though getting a GSHP to pay off is a gamble on rising energy prices.

However, in my mind, the biggest positive aspect of IDWH's is safety. Few and far between are direct-vent gas water heaters. Flammable-resistant designs are nice but a DV is always a better option. All indoor gas WH are potential CO and ignition sources... and what if some nitwit simply adds the WH to a existing (now undersized) flue or an orphaned chimney, and hopes for the best.

I used to think that having a direct-vent gas water heater is the way to go. Now I will have a IDWH not because it's economically the best choice but because the other features like long life, fast recovery, safety, etc. outweigh the economic considerations.

Jason Horner

Imagine being in a jurisdiction where you take out your old dead glass-lind water heater cause it blew out and leaked. It was co-vented up a common unlined flue with the boiler.

Imagine the code now says if you have 2 appliances (boiler + water heater) going up the same flue and due to the number of Btu's from both appliances it must be lined with a liner that's too big to fit up the flue. Don't laugh - it happens in older homes all the time.

Your choices then are indirect tank or instantaneous on-demand wall-hung side-vented boiler at about the same cost. But the wall-hung doesn't produce as much continuous DHW for your needs.

Choose iDHW and when your boiler dies you can replace it with a 95% efficient condensing model.