Simply Amazing

Mike T., Swampeast MO

70 mbh I=B=R Vitodens heated a gravity conversion system SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a 146 mbh I=B=R standing pilot cast iron "cube" boiler from the 70s! ONLY the built-in variable speed, weather responsive circulator driving the system! At this outside temp flow capability is around 2 gpm into this system! No low loss header!

Outside temp dropped rapidly from high 50s to about 51° during the late afternoon. Temp now steady but strong North wind.

Accidentally left the TRV on my office rad wide open after combustion/leak tests. From dead cold start, temp raised 4° in less than 50 minutes! (Checked my data logging thermometer to verify.)

When the old boiler would begin to fire at this temp from a cold start or after WWSD I would wonder, "Where the hell is all that energy going?" as I watched it fire and fire and fire and traced the heat SLOWLY with my hand. Slow despite a B&G 100 circulator! I estimated/calculated that around 80% of input was going up the flue.

Could trace the heat from the Vitodens RAPIDLY. ENTIRE piping system warm within a very short time. The small "wild" radiant floors ensure that there is flow through the mains even if all TRVs are satisfied like they are now. Main part of master bath tile floor heated with electric radiant--currently turned off. It's decidedly cool to the bare foot. All remaining bath floors (including shower in master) have hydronic--they're perfectly neutral to the bare foot. Accomplished in about 3 hours. The old boiler took MUCH longer to do this in similar conditions.

Sidewall venting. Had to put my ear against the protective screen cover to hear ANYTHING.

Photo shows first and most important datalogging connection--exhaust temperature. Two more on their way for supply/return. Will use an accurate rainfall sensor to measure condendate production.

THOSE BTUs I PAY FOR ARE GOING WHERE I NEED THEM--NOT TO THE GREAT OUTDOORS!!!!!

Constantin

Congratulations...

... the only thing I'm not crazy about with the Vitodens is the size of the sidewall exhaust terminal. Don't get me wrong, it is probably a perfectly functional terminal and as such has to be shaped the way it is, but the one I saw was huge! Congrats again on having a perfectly functional heating system.

Mark Hunt

Sorta' like


a bucket of golf balls at a driving range?

Yah, it's a bit over the top, but you can't argue performance.

BTW, I have had the same results on gravity systems with the Munchkin.

Mark H

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Unknown

HUGE & UGLY

There, I said it. I wish it could be improved. I just had to move a whole system around because the customer wouldn't have the basketball hoop on the front of the house. Vitodens termination sure is BIG and ugly. MHO

Design considerations can be improved upon. Will the Big V listen?

Gary

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Yes, that screen is awfully big. There must be some reason. The actual vent termination appears lost inside.

Highest recorded flue temp so far was 106.7° at 4:01 a.m. with outside temp 49.8° and quite steady. Mean flue temp about 94°.

Constantin

Having worked on a outdoor WH,

My guess is that the Viessmann terminal is designed to be ΔP neutral, no matter where the wind is coming from. Such terminals are hard to design (took me about 3 months of experimentation to get it right). Well, who happens to have a spare Viessmann side-mount vent, a 4' diameter, 50MPH-capable windmachine that is gimbaled, and an array of movable walls lying around to test my theory?

My feeling with Viessmann is that they put a premium on performance, followed by (as a nice-have) aesthetics. This is the way it ought to be... and I'd like to see the performance of some of those plastic pancakes I see around the neighborhood from time to time when the winds are a blowin' and there is a lot of turbulence in the air.

As an alternative to the side-vent, the vertical vent/intake should be easy to install (zero clearance and all that) as long as it's not going to be more than an equivalent length of about 20'. Most of us live in homes that require longer chimneys than that if the heating appliance is to be installed in the basement.

Convincing HO's to place a Vitodens into their living spaces for a vertical termination requires a re-think on the part of architects, builders, and HO's. Not always the easiest sell, reducing potential living/storage space in areas that are occupied.

Jason Horner

Vitodens Venting

What's your opinion about mounting a Vito on the 3rd floor of a house and running the supply/returns down to the basement for connection to all the existing radiant distribution piping and the iDHW tank.

I've got a client whose house does not have a good spot to sidewall vent anywhere out of the basement at or below the level of the 1st floor but they have an inconspicuous place on the 3rd floor on the side of the chimney. I could punch a hole in the chimney and vertical vent the Viessmann vent 8' up the flue.

Alternatively, has anyone ever taken the Vito piping out a sidewall and then run the supply/vent pipe vertically in order to clear a code obstruction at ground level? Would this be code ok? Maybe like this:

||
exterior -> || |=
wall || |
_________||_|
| ||
------- ||
| |
| Vito |
| |
|______|

Constantin

At the Viessmann Training,

Our instructor specifically forbade running vertical venting for the Vitodens on the outside. The logical reason is that the water vapors in the combustion gases could start to freeze and then block the exhaust vent. So, as far as side-wall installs go, the only visible thing should be the terminal.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with installing a Vitodens on the 3rd floor. It's a zero clearance for the the unit as well as the vent. With a non-gravity system, it would probably be just as happy feeding the house from the top down as from the bottom up. Our trainer specifically mentioned installing Vitodens' high up in houses as an option since they are sealed combustion, and virtually noiseless, units. Cheers!

S Ebels

I agree

> There, I said it. I wish it could be improved. I

> just had to move a whole system around because

> the customer wouldn't have the basketball hoop on

> the front of the house. Vitodens termination sure

> is BIG and ugly. MHO

>

> Design considerations can

> be improved upon. Will the Big V

> listen?

>

> Gary

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 296&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

S Ebels

I agree Gary

If there is one thing I could change above the Vito it would be the venting. 20 ft maximum horizontal with the concentric vent really limits your choices at times and the termination is butt ugly.

Steamhead

Mike, how many square feet

of radiation is on that system? The B&G 100 may have been so oversized the water may have been moving too fast to pick up heat in the boiler or shed it in the rads. This was certainly the case in my house, with 545 square feet of American Peerless.

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marc

you learn to love it

the termination is pretty large, but sidewall termination is usually less expensive. using only the side wall kit. they are just as ugly as the condensor in my opinion. marc

Mike T., Swampeast MO

1,049 square feet of iron; about 80 square feet (heated area) of radiant floors.

TRVs on all the rads for 7 years.

Radiant floors only use 3/8" tube so there can't be much flow through them.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Size

Here's an idea of why it may be so big. VERY little bad combustion by-products from the Vitodens--am pretty sure I heard that the burner is actually allowed to fire without venting at trade shows in Germany.

Perhaps exhaust is already so diluted at the perimeter of the screen that you could breath right against the screen fear of harm. You never know what kids will do after all...