Electrical usage on WM Ultra

Mr Takagi

I am looking into adding a battery backup to my Weil Mclain Ultra. But I can't seem to find any info in the literature that tells the power consumption (in Watts) when it is running. Has anyone taken the time to put a meter on one of these to see how much current it draws at high fire? I can get the specs on my circulators, but nothing on the boiler itself.

Thanks
Mike

kevin coppinger_4

what size is ...

the circuit going to it? I would ifgure atleast 1800 watts.kpc


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Constantin

Try a Kill-A-Watt device

... they're about $30 from cyberguys.com. Simply plug the Ultra into the Wattsaver, then see what the draw, power requirements are...

.

Since boilers aren't normally plugged in, but rather hardwired, the word "simply" does not really apply here!

Indeed it is a pity that power consumption is not stated, and in general, boilers (other than the Monitor MZ) ignore the electricity use aspect of efficiency. The Munchkin, for example, needs P/S piping and thus a separate boiler loop pump, but even if you can get HTP to tell you the power comsumption rating for the Munchkin, you'll have to add the pump. A 100 watt pump costs about $40 over a heating season, which is several percent of your heating bill.

Uni R

UPS on WM Ultra

You could get some (way too) relative comparisons at:

http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/topboil.htm

A key question is what would you be putting on the UPS. If it is just to protect the control module and you can separate that out, you could use a very small UPS to protect your settings. Otherwise you have to factor in a Taco 011 or equivalent circulator that uses approximately 200 watts, likely a 24 volt transformer load and the blower motor (I have no idea what it draws but it is the other significant draw). If it is to keep everything going in order to facilitate a controlled shutdown then all of these need to be factored in.

Constantin

Plus....

.... consider how electrical motors can give a UPS a very hard time due to the large inrush currents usually required to get them going. It's one of the reasons that laser printers and UPS' usually don't mix (the fuser assembly probably being the primary reason, I would think).

Anyway, I thought the idea here was not to keep the heating system going no matter what, it was to protect the (allegedly fragile) electronics of the Ultra. If you want to keep a bank of 40W circulators going all night, you need more than a UPS... a inverter + a bank of batteries is more like it.

zeke

Perhaps you should mention the reason why you need this backup. If it is for keeping the total system functioning for more than minutes you will need much more than a UPS. You will need a power generator. You're talking killowatts of power, not a few watts that UPS units are used for.

MikeAR

My reasoning

I've read that hard lockouts can be a problem with these. I'm not looking to be able to run the system off the backup, just protect it from those nice little power bumps we tend to get during snowstorms - where the power drops out just long enough to turn everything off and right back on.

Mike

jerry scharf_2

If it's hard wired

Just open the wiring box, clip an clamp on ammeter, preferably one that captures peak current, and run the unit. It should tell you all you need to know. Like others said, if there are no pumps on the circuit, the demand should be quite low.

I'm pretty sure Floyd has one working on a UPS now. He'll probably post when he sees the thread. If it falls off the bottom, just find it with search and add a bump message.

jerry

Weezbo

I would agree with the thrust of the conversation...

Many vote that you use the ups to maintain the electronics on the system control...Constantine mentioned the idea for an inverter and battery bank,..another suggested a gen set back up with switch gear... i agree with this. one way you protect the brain,one way you protect the system with battery back up ,the last option is like ok so you want it to go and Keep going maybe for days weeks whatever. i like all these ideas. i am looking into the best system that i can get in the way of an inverter and battery bank for four hours.... that allows TIME to get a gen set of some sort set up in the event of a power outage that might go the distance.

Floyd_7

UPS.......

I do have a coupe of systems with Ups units on them.... I have experimented and found that a 425 watt will actually run two Ultra's if the circ. pumps are on separate electrical feeds.
One Ultra and pump can be run also and there will be some backup time...I never pushed it to see how much.
The main reason that I have the Ups there, is to buffer the power, and contol the hz going to the unit. With this I have had no problems so far... I'm not convinced that the on/off cycling is what screws with the control as much as high/low voltage and/or frequecy.....
The unit that I have been using costs about 200 bucks and is available from Grainger... Part #5JJ98.
Maybe some snowy day this winter I'll play some more....
Too much work and not enough time right now....

Floyd

Mr Takagi

FYI, I put an amp meter on the Ultra last night and read just under 3A with the boiler on high fire with both circulators running (a Taco 011 and 007).

Mike

Constantin

Some things to consider...

I consider UPS' by APC to be pretty good. The APC 725 ES will run that system at full power for about 4 minutes. It costs $100. The APC 1500 RS will run that system for about 20 minutes and costs about $250. If you want to run the system for more than 8 hours, APC will charge between $1500-2,000 for a UPS+add-on batteries for longer run-time.

Thus, if preventing callbacks is the impetus for this UPS, then you should isolate the Ultra from the pumps and hook it up to a relatively affordable APC unit.

If providing heat for hours on end is what you're after, weigh the costs of providing all that power... For one, is the customer willing to pay for it? Or could you consider getting a good marine inverter, some AGM batteries, a transfer switch, and a small UPS to tide the Ultra over until the transfer switch has made contact. I doubt you'd spend nearly as much money as with an APC solution, but installing all this may be outside your comfort zone.

Lastly, one thing that would interest me is what voltages the Ultra actually uses on the inside. You may find that the Ultra is a 24/12/5VDC unit on the inside, with the exception of the the pump, of course. You could avoid many conversion losses/etc. if you could tie a parallel DC source directly into the Ultra and avoid transfer switches and all that jazz as well. But don't expect WMc not to void your warranty!