Most Efficient Oil Fired Boiler?

Supply House Rick

Looking for a boiler 135,000 btus that will absolutely save me the most money. We hear so much around here, but would like to see what the PRO's think.
Thank you very much,
Dave

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Many here swear by the Viessmann Vitola, but it does come with a hefty price tag. Properly used the Viessmann controls are very efficient as well.

Geno_15

Energy Kinetics System 2000

is probably the most efficient coupled with an outdoor reset, you'd need tests to conclude which system, the System2000, Viessmann or Buderus were the absolute tops. The real difference is the System2000 is steel and the others are cast iron. I would check those three and then make a personal decision based on price.

DOE huh? maybe you should use your home as a test site, I don't believe that any but the most efficient systems should be sold in this country anymore!!

Jim Harding

eff, boiler

Smith Boilers 8 series will give you upto 86.% eff,also made in America. the web site is smithboiler.com
the Boiler is Energystar rated also

techheat_2

The most savings will come from proper sizing,how did you arrive at 135,000 BTU/Hr?

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Supply House Rick

Heat Loss

Ran the Slant-Fin program available on this site, very help full

techheat_2

That's a real old house or a real big house or you have a LOT of glass.As far as most return on investment,I think the Biasi is hard to beat with Buderus right behind it{only because of the higher intial cost} The Viessmann is probably most efficient in total terms but is in different league price-wise.I'd go Biasi or Buderus with a reset control.

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DaveGateway

EK said don't use outdoor reset

to me. Plus you'd have to splice it into their energy manager. The same concept can be done with any low mass boiler, indirect water heater and Tekmar 260 control. Get a steel Laars Max oil boiler, only 3.2 gal and 86% AFUE.

Ted_9

I agree with Twchheat. You must also consider the ease of maintenace with the European boilers. They are designed to make maintenace easy which should be done yearly with any boiler to keep the efficiency up and the unit safe.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

Mitch_4

Check this out.

http://www.gamanet.org/gama/inforesources.nsf/vAttachmentLaunch/7CB74023B5A0826D85256E9000609940/$FILE/10-04 oil boilers.pdf

Gama results in same application testing. Products are listed by manufacturer. Actual list start around page 14, previous to that they discuss test proceedures.

Good starting point

John Felciano

Simple

Viessmann Vitola Biferal and a Vitotronic 200 control,,,can't get any better!

Steamhead

Is this

a steam or hot-water system?

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Dave Mayer -3 Sons Heating

Efficiency

Hello
Efficiency by definition is a simply comparison of the ratio of carbon dioxide or oxygen in relation to the temperature of the flue gasses. AFUE does not take into consideration the initial expense for the unit, ease of maintenance, life expectancy. In other words....I find the European boilers very nice and have good AFUE's...but the initial cost of the unit is exorbidant, service is not as accesible...so the "payback" is lengthy and negligible at best. The System 2000 is a neat system, many installers love them, the AFUE is nice. But again, they are costly and a nightmare to appropriately tune yearly. When parts fail they are not readily available. Rear cerafelt and circuit boards are common failures. So "efficiency" in a practical not textbook reference is a much broader subject than just the AFUE. I chose to put in Smith boilers because the AFUE is very good, the boiler is very servicable, life span is exceptional and the initial cost to install is the same or less than any other American cast-iron boiler.
Dave Mayer Sr.

Bill Nye_2

the most efficient...

...Boiler is the one that is OFF! If it is not running it is not using energy. If it is well insulated it is not losing energy.

Viessmann and Buderus and Dedietrich and probably many other Euro boilers have three times the insulation as the USA boilers. My Vitola can be off at high limit and the jacket is room temperature to the touch. Put your hand on top of most US boilers and you'll burn your hand. But that's ok because "the energy is being used to heat the space"

I think high mass boilers are more efficient because they store more energy . The Vitola bi-ferral holds a good amount of water, the burner is on for a longer cycle and off for a longer cycle. This will help reduce emissions and keep the burner at steady state for longer times.

The best way to conserve fuel though is to tighten up the envelope. If you have a leaky house the best boiler in the world will still waste fuel heating your windy castle.

Piping is almost never insulated. In the residential system I see I would guess fewer than 10% have the pipes insulated.

Outdoor reset with constant circulation (or near constant)and an indoor sensor beats the heck out of systems with on/off High Limit operation.

Heating with lower temp water will save a ton of bucks. Boiler design that allows low water temp can save. 50 degree day my Vitola will heat my house with 95 degree water. This boiler does not condense. 87-88% combustion efficiency.

Next I guess you want a condensing or at least a modulating burner.

S Ebels

When someone asks me that............

I tell them there are a multitude of things that go into the efficiency equation. AFUE (All Fouled Up Existentialy) is but one facet of the efficiency jewel.

This would be my efficiency wish list.

A tight building envelope.

A boiler that is easy to maintain and clean. If it's difficult to do....... It usually doesn't get done. A dirty boiler is not an efficient boiler regardless of it's original rating.

A boiler that will take direct reset of the system water temperature. The lower you can run it the more efficient the whole system becomes, not just the boiler. My Vitloa will hit 89-90% firing into 90* water like it's doing right now.

Did I mention a tight building envelope?


A boiler control that is integrated and matched to the boiler it is installed on. This control should be rock solid durable and reliable. (All of our phones and the fax were toasted by lightning last week but the Vitotronic never blinked) It should also be capable of running multiple water temps if needed and operating the domestic hot water heater.

It should be made by one of the major manufacturers to ensure long term parts availability. Not some new flash in the pan wonderboiler. I look for a proven track record. (Doggone conservative Midwesterner)

I could go on and on and on but this is my personal order of preference

Viessmann VB-2 Vitola hands down the best modern oil boiler made.

Tie for second Buderus 115/215 series and the Viessmann Vitorond

Third, Crown Freeport, easy to clean, good efficiency. Doesn't like real low water temps.

Frankly it's been so long since I looked at any American boilers I can't offer any valid advice. It's not that they aren't good pieces of equipment, the US manufacturers just haven't seemed to grasp the advantages of a control/boiler system approach.

As far as initial price the Vitola is at the top of the heap unfortunately. That is too bad because if everyone had a Vitola, world peace would break out..............or something like that.

The Buderus and Vitorond are more mainstream pricewise.

Any of them are worth what is asked. They are that good.

Weezbo

The boiler isnt where you start to \"save money\"

i will agree the Germans are fine engineers,the Buderas is a wonderfully strong piece of iron. American made? The lot of you are gonna hate me, flip a coin. Smith's arent available aroud here any more however long as you dont shock them and as long as you are Aware of the minor technicalities with thier plate on the coil and surface mating mind Bind they are as effective as a dollar can strech.i havent installed one in over twenty years....i am more enamoured with controling various parameters than afue ratings.system 2000's are only as reliable as the Built in control board... next year i am thinking of bagging slant fin and weilMclains and going with either the Buderas or the Viessmann. fuel oil costs too much to throw it out the window.the riello burners have been hanging in here since the mercron. the burner is the thing that has made the most difference over the years on American boilers.(oil burners)next is probably control stradgey...long run times on burners and long run times or constant circulation seem to me to have it all over the finest of equipment thrown together thoughtlessly or with out consideration....first thing you hear from one of the gentelmen who prefer viessmann is do a heat loss calculation . that may sound like bunch of hocus pocus however due to the variations in building practices how where the vaporbarriers located how much insulation building wrap for wind fluctuations insulation in ceilings ands walls,sole top and headder plate treatment,windows and doors sealing of plates penetrated by wire, ducts and pipes types of glass and floor coverings perimiter insulation proximity to ground water ,solar sensible gain,topography and geography just to name a few off thetop of my head are all variables in the equasion of effective utilization of a hard earned dollar.whos boilers best might be a great game to play at DOE however here our workmanship is of a quality that directly affects and effects the Fuel efficientcies. i am not saying we can turn a pos into the same leauge as a piece of well thought out and well machined boiler put together in a aneseptic environment at X degrees Celcius mik'ed with lasers on its robotic assembly line with human hawk visioned quality control inspectors .howdy neighbour....i saw a viessmann recently that has been given and early ticket to thegrave..thats how it goes,i Cost too much to pay,or perhaps i look like i do.whatever..or maybe i make things sound too easy to do,...or look so simple a child of 5 could do it....who knows? may i never feel my work is something unworthy of my full energy and focus...oops sorry ..i digress...

joel_19

Sorry Dave

But your statements about boiler eff are incorrect. The AFUE test does not take several factors into consideration and is a baseline , starting point at best. Consider boiler insulation. Did you know that if you remove the boiler jacket and insulation that the goverment would consider the boiler to have a higher AFUE?. Now if you take the insulation out of your house it's gonna use more fuel right? same with the boiler. I just had a customer tell me that after he switched from a tankless to an indirect he went from burning a tank of fuel in a summer to burning 1/3 of a tank. How is that possable if the AFUE on the boiler didn't change? My fuel usage dropped when I switched to full outdoor reset, yet my stack numbers changed only a wisker. We've repiped exsisting boilers to constant circ via a mixing valve with reset on big cast iron systems. All those customers reported lower fuel usage, but thier AFUE didn't change because we are resetting the loop not the boiler. Shoot I could probably write a book on this but who has the time? of course if Dan advanced me a 100k or so I could probably find the time... Hello Dan you listening maybe a co-op effort? For enough $$$$ i'll let you put your name on top!!!

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S Ebels

Nail on the head!!!

It's the entire system that provides efficiency. The Euro's have this down pretty well with their boiler and control packages. In fact I'd say they have it darn near perfect.

That integration is one of the major reasons I like "furrin" boilers. The control package is matched exactly to the boiler. Example: Viessmann sends a chip along with all of their boilers that plugs into their Vitotronic control. It tells the control exactly which boiler it is sitting on in order to optimize its operation specifically that boiler.

I wish more US man's would take this approach. It's not as simple as who has the highest AFUE numbers.

Constantin

Agree about the plug-and-play aspect...

The Viessmann line is designed to work as a system. Easy to set up, trouble-shoot, and service. Why? Because they deliver a package.

This is not unlike Apple in the PC world. Traditionally, they may have been more expensive than the PC competition, but the stuff actually works, and how much is your time worth to you? My father is very happy with his Powerbook, and I suspect I will be very happy with my Vitola.

Packaged systems give the supplier an amazing opportunity to get everything right before shipping them. It also gives them an opportunity to value-price them... viessmann is certainly not cheap, but the pain of the initial purchase price diminishes as a function of time as other costs like servicing the unit are kept in check. Superior design will always have its price.

Paul Pollets

I'll Say....

Actually, Steve, you've said it best!! I don't have to add my 2Cents. Think I'll go enjoy the weekend.

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