Feed and Return Question

Michelle_2

I have a loop type hot water system that is zoned. (Hope I'm saying this correctly) There are 3 2-wire zone values and a pump. Now, my masterbath, masterbedroom and a room that seems to have been a porch that was eventually inclosed to become a small family room (not very big about 6'x 15') are on one zone. This small family room has 2 large windows and a smaller window and it gets very cold in this room. I even put the plastic window wrap on every year and still, it's freezing. The thermo. is in this room and my bedroom and bathroom gets to be very, very warm. I noticed that the water goes from the bathroom to the bedroom and then finally to the small family room. I think that it should have been the other way around (just guessing) and wanted to know what you pros think should be done. Can they just switch the pipes down in the basement so it circulates the other way? or will they have to redo the whole thing? There are baseboard heaters in the small family room and the bedroom and a radiator (small about 6'' high by 1 foot wide) in the bathroom.
Thanks,
Michelle

STEVEN MARKS

family room

Chances are its not the piping. Most likely their is not enough heating element in the room to heat the room. Is the floor and ceiling properly insulated?

Michelle_2

Hi Steven,
Thanks, didn't think of that one. I think that the ceiling is properly insulated but it's a drop ceiling made from that fiberous pulp cut in squares. I know that they fit together tongue and grove and there are tiny holes (made that way, didn't poke them myself) so I'm sure it's not the best thing. Maybe we should try to put drywall up there and see if it helps. As for the floor, I know that the foundation is brick (not sure if that's bad) and there is probably plywood then it's carpeted. The floor doesn't seem to be that cold though. Anyway, I guess I'll see if the drywall on the ceiling works (put in some better insulation while we're at it). P.S. How would you be able to tell if the baseboards have been painted? I know that they are not the same color as the ones in the bedroom. And would that be part of the problem, if they were painted? (probably a stupid question but thought I'd ask)
Thank you
Michelle

Dale

Steves correct

Determining what insulation you actually have in the cold room is the first step. I also suspect air leakage, a blower door test would show what needs to be plugged. I suspect your ceiling isn't insulated too well. As to your question, yes you can change direction on a series loop by switching the piping, if you change direction through a zone valve it will need to be reversed. I wouldn't bother though since you'll only get a few more degrees delta tee. If it we me I would make the porch it's own zone with it's own stat or it's own loop. you may need more baseboard there, determined by heat loss but the insulating should be done first IMHO.

Steve_35

Stuff

Painting the baseboards won't have any impact on the heat delivered. Is the bottom and top of the BB open? Air needs to move in the bottom and out the top. If the top and/or bottom are closed off (high carpet, clothes, flapper shut, etc) you will get much less heat out of BB.

Some radiation is directional. In other words the fins on the BB need to be in the correct orientation. Pull the cover off. If the aluminum fins are more or less flat the orientaion of the radiation isn't too critical to the output of the BB. However, if one edge is bent 90 and the other edge is flat the flat edges need to be at the top and bottom so air can move up through the fins. If it's the wrong way the bent edges keeps air from flowing through the radiation.

Finally, is the cover on the BB? If not you won't get much heat out of it.

If all of these things are okay, then you most likely don't have enough radiation for the heat loss this room incurs although there are other potential causes.

lchmb

one more thing

Another thought is to make sure the baseboard is not plugged with hair and lint. This could cause the heat to remain in the pipe and not heat the room.....

J.C.A._3

Michelle,

Pitman9 brings up a valid point. For those of you that think it "ain't so common", ask Mr Milne about the development around the corner from him. About 1/2 of the installed baseboard was put in 90° to proper orientation, and we see it in a couple other inherited installs also.

You have been given some sage advice. Make sure that there is enough radiation for the room first, then consider making the zone a seperate one.If there isn't enough wall space for the amount of "standard" radiation needed, there are higher output models available from most manufacturers. They stand a bit taller and wider than regular baseboard,but have bailed my carcuss out a few times after a bogus heat loss calculation. Chris

Mike T., Swampeast MO

That's an \"Acoustic\" Ceiling

Likely Armstrong. Those little holes are there to give a tiny path for sound--then the sound hits a "dead end" and dissipates. The holes don't go all the way through.

While those ceilings do have some decent insulation value because of the material, they're too thin to do much on their own. Can you access above to see if there is additional insulation? It was rather common in the 1970s to use those ceilings with "blown in" insulation directly on top. If you remove the tiles, the insulation comes cascading out...

If no or little insulation, I'd suggest adding as much as possible. In a small, highly exposed room your payback will be quick.

Michelle_2

Thank you very much, one more question if you don't mind

Thank you all for the wonderful information. I'll check for everything you all have suggested. I did remove a couple of the tiles from one corner and should probably add some more insulation or just put in new.

We are going to rehab this room (guess we'll check the insulation in the walls while we're at it). The baseboards are "sitting" on two pieces of wood that run the length of the baseboards. I was told that this was done because it brings them level to the other 2 rooms. (there is a step down into the room) I was wondering if these are really sitting on the boards or if they are attached to the wall and the boards are just there for more support? I can repaint them but wanted to make this room into an office using stained wood and not painted. So, would it be possible to remove the boards without having to worry about the baseboard heaters and put new boards in? Or should I make sure that they are supported in someway or do they just need to be removed and then put back over the new boards? The only other thing I can think of is to make a cover for them which would (in my eyes) seem to be the easiest way but now I'm worried about the heat loss.
Sorry about my rambling on and on,
Michelle

Michelle_2

Extra baseboards

I have a couple of left-over baseboards down in the basement that the old owner left. Just looked at them and these are one whole unit, probably cast iron (very heavy) but they do have fins on the back side and they are at 90*. Not sure if this would make a difference, but thought I'd post it incase. I know that the whole thing heats up when the boiler is on. So, are these called something different?
Thank you again,
Michelle

Michelle_2

Pictures

Just took a picture of the front and back of the baseboard incase it might help. On the back it says:

A.R. & S. S. Corp. Type-RC

Michelle_2

Picture

I took pictures of the front and back of these baseboards incase it might help. On the back it has:

A.R. & S.S. Corp Type-RC