smith 28 A

jeff_36

Have a CF2300 burner, need 50hp boiler replacement.

Do the Smith 28s really have a leaking problem?
Has problem been fixed with the new graphite connectors?
Is the high-efficency model anything more than extra insulation?
(if smith is recomended at all)

mark_40

as i stated before ......

90 % of the leakers we fix are 28's .. and it's just not the gaskets ... hell, some summers we don't do anything but pull Smiths apart ... why do you think they are cheap ???

Dave Mayer -3 Sons Heating

Smiths

I install 60 Smith boilers a year. I use Smith exclusively and strongly feel that they are the BEST American boiler. Their factory support team is by far superior to any other company. How about Peerless? They are not inexpensive but who makes their cast-iron? One guess......Smith. How many Burnham V7 leakers has everyone taken out? I have never seen a Smith leak and if they ever did I have the best factory support behind me.
Dave Mayer Sr.

Ray M

H.B. Smith Series 28

I have changed sections on many of these. It seems that the iron is thinner than the old 3500 and 4500 mills boilers. The gaskets have always been a problem, but are easier to fix than push nipples. I would use other than H.B. smith for larger installations mabey even a multible boiler system.JMHO.
Ray m

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mark_40

Say, Dave .......

youy don't perhaps sell Smith, or ... maybe even work for WestCast ???? Do ya ???? NO LEAKERS, ever ... BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA ! ! !

mark_40

Cast Iron

yes, indeed ... in places the #28 sections are less than 1/8" thick .. thats why the casting defects .. turn into leaks .... most guys that work on 28's ... are fully aware of this ... Dave .....

let me guess .... you also think this is a great steam boiler also, RIGHT ???

even tho, there are an equal number of heat transfer pins above, and below the water line on the # 28 a .....

you know, Weil halves the number of pins above the water line, to keep liming down .... well, i am sure you know that ...

mark_40

i bet ... Dave ...

is a residential guy ... yea, i had a few g110's the were leakwers , too ....peerless, Smith, dunkirk .. ya know they all come outta the same foundry, right ??

Dave Mayer -3 Sons Heating

Hey Mark

I find it difficult to even justify your infantile remarks and attempts at belittling my ability and staus. No Mark, I am not an employee of Westcast or a salesman. I am a true to life Deadman. I am an honest hardworking service manager. I INSTALL Smiths. I, not my employees, not my techs, not my subs. I do the installs because I will not tolerate any shortcuts or second rate work. I can, and have many offers to install any American boiler. I chose Smith because of the quality of the product and great factory reps. Unlike you, I do not belittle others or their choices but respect their ability as craftsmen and individuals. You see this is what separates the men from the boys.
Dave Mayer Sr.

Drew_4

Smith-Pins

Mark. May I inquire as to what pins you are speaking of? The heat transfer pins are located on the FLUE GAS SIDE of the sections. I am perplexed as to a liming issue where there is no water. Maybe you should attempt to pipe the boilers so the water in on the INSIDE of the sections. Try that and then lets chat...No wonder you have leakers. Do you also put the gasoline for your car in the back seat. If you require any information as to what a cast iron sectional boiler is and how they function, please let me know.

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

--i looked at over 50 boilers this year that are leakers --most are the 28a i say the biggest problem with ALL cast sectionals of the larger size have 1 thing in common they are cold start and most do not have low-fire hold -- the ones out there that do are wired incorrectly -----Dave Mayer sr. --you sir are a residential service manager you dont put in 28's --the smith are decent for residential ...but the larger commercial ones have issues

Jim Harding

28a

if anybody has any issues or questions pleas feel free to call me @ 508-245-0138. I do work for Smith Boilers and have installed 28 Series Boilers.If a Boilers is installed properly you wont have any problems. repaired 50 Boilers this year ? how old are these Boilers. how many sections were MANUFACTURER DEFS? or were these failure do to installation issues. how many people actually look to see what caused a section to fail. just replace the section and assume the IRON is defective.Please give me a call on your next problem job.
Sincerly:
Jim Harding
Smith Boilers

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

the boilers i have looked at we did not install--i can tell you that possibly 2 were gasket leaks that were let go too long ,who is the rep or someone in the New York metro area --some boilers were within 3 years and some within 7 years it all varied size-wise and not always in any certain area --some front some towards the rear --bottom, sides --some i know were thermal shock ---i can keep a detailed list if i get an interested party to relay them too -in the future ----btw a couple a sealed with liquid plug,some sections are getting done some are being replaced completely

mark_40

Butt out, Dave & Drew ...

don't take it personal ... but you don't know what you are talking about .....the thread is about EXPERIENCE with Smith # 28a's

Unknown

I'm laughing so hard

I'm crying . Gasoline in the back seat . Sorry , but thats funny .

Robert O'Connor_6

mark_40

the cast iron ...on the WATER SIDE

is really HOT at/ above the water line due to this , DREW ..get the drift ... ?????

mark_40

hi, jim .....

problems with # 28a's ....
1) polybutyl gasket leaks
2) viton gasket leaks
3) casting leaks
........
the Viton was the "new, improved never leak" gasket ....
but .. they, too at 10 years, or so .. still fail ...
....i hope the 2nd generation Graphite fixes this

some are the customers fault, for letting leaking gaskets deteriorate into section replacement ...

some, maybe 30 % .. are casting defects ...it may take 5-6 years to show up, but i see a fair share

the cast is REALLY thin in some spots !

thanks for your interest in supporting the Smith product ...i have installed lots , including 3 18 section Mills

Drew_4

Drift..

Jim Harding

smith 28A

Mark,
please feel free to call me @508-245-0138 with any problems you may have or see. my job is to help with any issues contractors have.Anybody can sell a boiler. It is the service you get from a manufacturer that seals a deal.we will stand behind our products 100%. i can not help if i dont know about the jobs.Remember there is never a problem only a solution.
Sincerly:
Jim Harding
Smith Boilers

Jim Harding

new york reps

> --i looked at over 50 boilers this year that are

> leakers --most are the 28a i say the biggest

> problem with ALL cast sectionals of the larger

> size have 1 thing in common they are cold start

> and most do not have low-fire hold -- the ones

> out there that do are wired incorrectly -----Dave

> Mayer sr. --you sir are a residential service

> manager you dont put in 28's --the smith are

> decent for residential ...but the larger

> commercial ones have issues

Jim Harding

new york reps

Applied Technologies,415 oser ave.Hauppauge, N.Y.
tel#631-331-0215
DeMarco SAles,41 pinehollow drive Ballston Spa N.Y.
Tel#518-884-2925
i hope this helps you out, if not call me and i can get you more contact names.
Jim Harding
Smith Boilers

Drew_4

Mark-Really hot.....

Thank you for sharing your engineering knowledge and discovery of cast iron boilers “getting really hot”. This is great stuff. I would find your empirical engineering information (well sbstantiated with back up data of course)fascinating comparing the available surface area and location of heat transfers surfaces as they relate to the liming coefficient you have propounded.
It has always been my assumption that the idea of a steam boiler was to “get the water really hot”. Just a thought, but making more heat made available to the water (at or below the water line) would facilitate the process? When I boil water at home, I typically put the pan on the burner and do not turn the stove upside and over onto the top of the pan.

Drew Wolf/Mestek Inc.

mark_40

AAh ! .... the Key !

Drew now adds " Mestek" to his siggy ....care to illuminate these folks here about that drew ?? ....i have rep'd l.j. Wing, Airfan, and bought a LOTTA h.b. Smith ... you better be nice to me ... never can tell when i might show up at Westfield .. :-)

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

where are you the rep for l.j.Wing we do alot of schools etc.. with a 19d shaft we go through a few every year--you know i'd say 90% of the Smith's i see are in schools,and churchs

mark_40

Pix .. for Drew ....

now, ow ... be nice, Mr. Drew ... this is only a small sample of your stuff i have installed ...this job, 3 18 section Mills

mark_40

Sorry, # 6 oil ....

i quit the rep biz, 'an went back to contractin'

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

Mark do you wire in or spec a low-fire-hold --ohh yeah gotta love the rear access on the larger mills--interlocking brick we do a lot of replacement ---

mark_40

gotta love .........

that little cubby hole to crawl thru ....i won't fit ! ... no low fire hold spec'd by Smith, so .... they don't get one ...if i gotta fix it, somebodys gonna pay ! ..... my good friend always puts a LFH on cast iron, but he's Mr Anal ... wel don't spec it, smith don't spec it, burnham don't spec it ... so why worry ??? ........
regards .........

Slimwoodie

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

yeah i can just fit --if i really wanted to --i just survey and order the bricks where in ny are -- slimwoodie ---hvac-talk i couldn't get into before is it me ?

mark_40

ny ...

Southern Tier .... H-Talk is workin' fine for me

mark_40

DREW, ...buddy ... ya there ?????

:-) .........

Ken_8

Jim,

You posting here and Smith's total disregard for the 28A debacle are the stuff legends are made of.

I've found more gasket bosses with hairline fractures on the face(s) than I care to recall.

The wildcat strike of the foundry some 20 years ago that was alleged to be the only problem with the 28A, was a story we all "bought" - for a year or two.

The tragic record of the 28 section leaks is well documented. The only people installing them that I am aware of are those forced to - because of all the succesful schmoozing done between Mestek and specifying engineers - at the expense of usa all.

Want to stop by my shop in Jersey? I'll show you the Middlesex water company 28 that almost killed two people when the fron section blew out. I'll take you to Meadowbrook Gardens in Union where we replace two or three 28 intermediates a freakin year! Then we'll stop by Rahway Housing Authority and let you talk to Rick the mainetance supervisor. He'll tell you how cold the seniors were for ten years withe never ending sectional failures before we replaced the two 28's in there.

Then perhaps we'll run over to Springfield Schools where the 28 leaker sections were lined up by the dumpster for a year. Perhaps we can stop by a few other locations where three and four year old water and steam boilers were thrown in the garbage because the sectional replacement costs were so outtrageous.

The reputaion of the inferiority of the 28 makes us shudder with contempt. It is a bad design, period. Worse yet, the corporate line, "What problem"? tells us volumes of the true nature of both Smith and the parent, Mestek.

Hell, the local rep even quit in disgust over the problems!

Shall I go on?

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mark_40

DREW. Buddy ...... i'm not goin' away

did you lose track of this ???? goin' to WETstock ???

mark_40

oooooh. Drew ......

WETstock ain't very far from., WESTCAST ... gonnna be around ... ??