Weil-McClain vs. Peerless

mark_40

does that porice include new zone valves and double wall breeching ( b-vent ) to meet code ...??

Roger Flammang

Weil-McClaim vs. Peerless

I have a small brick home in Chicago with an old ( 35 years? ) Weil-McClaim CA-7 boiler. The boiler continues to adequately heat the home but the gas bill are going through the roof!!!! I figured its about time to get a new boiler installed. I was quoted some $3,300 for a Peerless replacement boiler ( 80% efficiency ). The seller seemed intent on selling the Peerless even though I would have preferred a Weil-McClain. Can anyone tell me how Peerless products compare to Weil-McClain?

don_52

at that price it's

a "shotgun" swap, take a look at the
new Chicago Mech specification, makes
no distinction between residential or
commercial. ( with one exception )

attached is the new code,suggest
you read it, review what is says
about "inspections" also review
sec. 12 for material specs..

there's one guy from "the wall"
who does travel for installs.

be careful man, there are good people
here yes, finding them is a bear.

type in your zip in "find a pro",
suprising isn't it.

regards, don ( zip 60660 )

Roger Flammang

New zone valves...double wall breaching? Good question! Quote says nothing about those but I'd suspect nothing of this sort is included. The quote is simply for a Peerless MI-06 ( 175,000 BTU, 80 AFUE ) exclusive of my recently installed Bell & Gossett pump. This unit was proposed to replace my old Weil-McClaim CA-7 of the same capacity. I would suspect the installation would be simply to remove the old bolier and install the new one using the existing plumbing and gas piping. The unit does come with a automatic vent damperelectronic ignition and expansion tank. The only additional items I want are two valves to isolate the pump should it ever have to be replaced or serviced.

So what I'm looking for are the following...

1) How do Peerless products compare to Weil-McLain.
2) Do these boilers have to be pre-installed by a service technician? That is, can I buy it and put it in place and let the service technician do the connections and setup?
3) Do I really need to replace the expansion tank?

Thanks for any info you can provide. I'm rather hesitant about such purchases having not too many good experiences with various home utility salesmen and tradesman in the past.

Regards,

Roger

don_52

I can recommend a \"wally\"

Roger,

the key here is to install "with maintenance/
service in mind" proper valves, fittings,etc.
really doesn't pay to skimp. do that and you
won't be sorry.

also have a sheetmetal shop that are
"certified sweeps", the owner sends
all his people to school

email me if you'd like.

don

btw, nothing against weil or peerless,
there are "other options" out there
it makes sense to look at them.

STEVEN MARKS

peerless boiler

Roger

I have never had a problem with a Peerless boiler. Both Peerless and Weil-McClain are very good boilers.
As far a purchasing the boiler and other material yourself some wholesalers will sell to the general public. I do not recomend this though as you will pay a much higher mark-up than an HVAC contractor also purchasing the boiler yourself who would you call if their was a defect in the boiler. The installing contractor is not going to help you since he didn't buy the boiler. I would recomend replacing all associated material, expansion tank, pumps, check valves, water feeders, backflow preventers, controls, oil lines etc.
Nothing is worse than having a new boiler and old parts that keep breaking down.

Steven

Larry (from OSHA)

No one has mentioned

if a heat loss has been done yet. I am only a home owner, but, I would be willing to bet that the 175,000 btu boiler is severely over sized for your home. My own 130k btu weil mclain is oversized for my 3000 sq. ft. house in Minnesota. If you want to save money on gas bills, first find out how much boiler you really need. What about insulation and the general tightness of the house? You may find that an 80k btu appliance will be all you need. There is a heat loss program available here on the wall. Check it out and best of luck to you.

Larry

oil-2-4-6-gas

.

find a contractor that will do a heat-loss calc..it will be a smaller boiler ------ smaller=less expensive initially and fuel consumtion will be less---while you have a couple of sheckles to spend / insulating window pockets,weather strip on the outer doors , and tightening up the house will save a lot of wasted energy

Robert O'Connor_7

If cost is an issue...

Why not try Williamson Thermoflo. Its a Weil-McLain thats about $150 cheaper, it just has a different jacket on it...Robert O'Connor/NJ

Roger Flammang

Not Sure Where I Go from Here!

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts! I have now received two quotes for my boiler....and both are very dissimilar! One quote is $3300 for a Peerless MI-06 ( 175,000 BTU, 80 AFUE ). The other is for several alternatives ( New Yorker, Peerless MI-05 and Weil-McLain ) - $2480, $2880, $3480 respectively ). Interestingly, the second quote is for smaller boilers ( +/- 140,000 BTU ) than currently installed which is a ( 35-40 year old ) Weil-McLain CA-7 ( +/- 165,000 BTU ).

I am not necessarily concerned about the $ as I am of the 'right' solution. I have a small two story Chicago brick bungalow ( sans insulation! )...on the order of 1400 sq ft + basement. Baseboard radiators on the first floor and a large radiator on the second floor. Basement has two large radiators that are 'turned off' since the radiator distribution pipes to the upper floors readily heat the basement. My problem - $400 / month gas bills during the dead of winter!!!!!

The firm quoting the smaller boiler(s) indicates that a +/- 140,000 BTU boiler is sufficient given the higher efficiency of today's boilers and the auto vent damper. This recommedation was based on experience rather than a hard and fast 'heat loss' calculation. I am sort of interested in the Weil-McLain CGA given its control module and ignition control feature. It was recommended that I 'stay away' from the electronic gizmos - a 'boiler is a boiler' - such gizmos aren't encessary and expensive to replace.

So I am at a loss try'n to figure out where to go. Any suggestions? Also, I need to replace a 60 gallon gas hot water heater....a 30 year old gas hot water heater!! Any recommendations?

Please respond.

Roger

Boilerpro_3

Hi,

I'm the contractor that Don was referring too. First, for 1400 sq ft house it is very unlikely that you even need a 140,000 input boiler, but a heatload calc shoul be done. My current 1906 2800 sq ft home with lots of glass needs only about 80,000 input @ 80%. 140,000 is typically the largest boiler I ever install in homes, unless it is exceptionally large. I have found that in older homes, for some reason, 180,000 input boilers were very popular, not matter what the size.

As for the water heater, you may want to tie it into the boiler though an indirect fired water heater, but it depends in part on you water usage.

My hands are pretty full now, But I may be starting to work in Chicago when things are slower here.


Boilerpro

Ranger

Wayne Combustion..

..(Wayne burner) is selling them also as "Lexus II".

jim murtaugh

willing to take a look

rodger, i would be happy to take a look at your system, although i to am a fan of peerless boilers and if you are looking for a cheep install i am not interested, my background is in service and all my installs reflect this. (708)301-5363

Reynz_2

Boiler Sizing

Do you really want to feel sick and overcharged for the next 20 years? Buy an oversized boiler.

I am a homeowner who went with the cheeper estimate and ended up getting a boiler that was almost double the size I needed.

Only deal with professionals who will do a heat loss calculation for your house. Don't go by feeling, experience, belief, Cracker Jack decoder ring, black light, your wife, your boyfriend, her girlfriend, or the horoscope.

You asked for advice from these "real professionals" on the wall, my best advice is to listen to them. Secondly, I would seriously consider a Weil McLain. Great company.

Pat_12

New Boiler

> Do you really want to feel sick and overcharged

> for the next 20 years? Buy an oversized

> boiler.

>

> I am a homeowner who went with the

> cheeper estimate and ended up getting a boiler

> that was almost double the size I needed.

> Only deal with professionals who will do a heat

> loss calculation for your house. Don't go by

> feeling, experience, belief, Cracker Jack decoder

> ring, black light, your wife, your boyfriend, her

> girlfriend, or the horoscope.

>

> You asked for

> advice from these "real professionals" on the

> wall, my best advice is to listen to them.

> Secondly, I would seriously consider a Weil

> McLain. Great company.

Pat_12

New Boiler, Do Your Homework

Just finished a boiler install. 2800 sq. foot home in Cleveland (similar climate to Chicago). Heat loss for home was 62,000 Btu. Installed an 80k Peerless Pinnacle. 92%AFUE. The Peerless/Munchkin is a wonderful little boiler that is quite affordable. Old boiler was 150k Pennco. New boiler is half the size of old boiler and is a modulating and condensing boiler (very efficient.) Also replaced old hot water tank with indirect fired water tank. Also a very efficient appliance. My advice is do your homework, buy the most efficient and reliable equipment you can afford and also replace all of your system components. Like any worthwhile home improvement, this project will be more expensive than you think, but in the end will be well worth it. You also want to consider an outdoor reset control for your system. Tons of information on this sight and the net. Hope this helps and good luck with your project.

Bill_41

Weil vs Peerless

Look into the Peerless Pinnacle great on gas 92 %

Kyle Kubs

Clash of the titans

As a home inspector who see's many unit's every week off all ages and configurations, I typically see alot of weil's and almost as many peerless. I've even installed a couple of weil's. Basically, quality wise I think your looking at the clash of the titans here... There just can't be enough of a difference to matter. I just installed a weil in my own house and would have had no problem using a peerless instead. Let the features determine which one. As far as a water heater is concerned, definetly go with an indirect fired heater run off the boiler. They are considerably more efficient than an independant gas fired, and you'll have an endless supply of hot water. If you get a good pro he will factor in about 25,000 btu more to the boiler for the water heater and should use a three way priority valve. A 40 gallon indirect will easily replace a 60 gallon gas. I'm also with everybody else, replace the small parts with the boiler...

Good Luck and happy hydronic's
Kyle Kubs
Benchmark Home Inspection Sercvices

Robert O'Connor_7

Kyle...

Exactly what 3 way priority valve are you speaking of??Robert O'Connor/NJ

Kyle Kubs

it's sort of a fancy zone valve that gives priority to the water heater zone over the heating zones when both have a call for heat at the same time, making sure you have enough hot water. If the boiler is very oversized it likely would not be needed but if you are going to cut it close this takes the gamble out of it.