I want to install a new boiler myself.

Constantin

From a fellow homeowner...

... I wish you best of luck in your quest for warmth. Despite being a trained engineer, having set up 300,000 sq ft factories and the like, I wouldn't try to install a boiler on my own. It's not my line of business. Having said that, I also understand your position and I hope that between now and the time your family moves into its next home that you'll have the place comfortably heated.

A budget of $2,500 isn't going to get you very far. However, you may be able to convince a local contractor to be paid in installments over time. Since you're heating with gas, I'd go with a modulating, condensing boiler as it will save you money over the long term. The NTI Trinity may be perfect for your application.

Kal Row

\"True colors\"? dead wrong... i live to help...

for ourselves, we pros mostly spar here - for fun and education – but when someone asks for help, we jump at the feel-good opportunity

there are hundreds of threads on here that prove you wrong, and you must admit, the numbers were sounding fishy, and we called him on it,

also: when we help a DIYer - we are sticking out, our ingrained moral safety minded necks, when the diy is on that tight a budget, then “safety”, is a definite no-can-do - so we have to back off

we are truly sorry if any innocent ones felt maligned – but lots of people need our help and we only have so much time, and must focus on the “safe’n’reasonable-can-do-ones”

gehring_3

Financing Install


If you are on municipal (city) gas you may be able to get your gas company to do the install for you and finance it by paying "x" amount extra every month in addition to your gas consumption. You should ask them. I know it is done in certain munipalities. It works for both parties because you get a new install done by a professional and they get a perfected lien on your house along with the guarantee that you will be a long term customer and won't be switching to oil anytime soon. Check it out.

Dave Yates (PAH)

financing

Is available via many contractors who can obtain the information from their suppliers. If that's not acceptable due to paying a higher interest rate than via a bank loan, then there are public assistant programs that will pay for the work, place a lien on your property and let you pay it back at your own pace - after which, they'll remove the lien. We often send folks that way, which - more often than not - means we won't get the work (low bid takes the work),but at least we've done our part & not left the HO in the lurch.



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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Again, Please

If you have the tools and basic skills a DIY boiler install is not out of the question. BUT, in good conscience, NOBODY can offer on-line coaching having never seen you or your system!

Some hydronic systems are extremely simple, others are exceptionally complex. Most are in between. In that "tween" land there are almost infinite variations.

You are assuming that your boiler must be replaced, yet you do not seem certain what is causing the current problems. It's entirely possible that the flame problem has nothing to do with the boiler itself--instead indicating an extremely dangerous condition in the flue. It could also be nothing more than an improper adjustment or inexpensive failed component. A small amount of water could be simple atmospheric condensation--particularly if the weather has recently become wet with coolish, variable temperatures. The water could also point to the same sort of DEADLY problems in the flue.

Please get someone in there who knows what they're seeing and how to diagnose problems! While your suspicion of a bad boiler may be correct--it's entirely likely that only repair is needed!

Should replacement be required, explain your position to the contractor. Perhaps there are things that you can do to help reduce cost--perhaps not. Perhaps, while failing, the life can be SAFELY extended for a year or two giving you time to prepare.

Sure, there are unethical contractors out there who will just say "it's shot" and want to sell you a complete new boiler. My personal experience however is that such are the great minority. Most do care about providing good, honest and appropriate service.

AGAIN, PLEASE GET SOMEONE IN THERE TO REVIEW YOUR SYSTEM!!!!

Unless you're an utter "heat freak" the time, effort and money you will have to invest to SAFELY install your own boiler will not be cost-effective. And even then you MUST have your work reviewed!!! There are UNSAFE situations that you simply won't know to look for or perhaps not even recognize if you're looking directly at them.

Jed_2

Appears that

He should register with HEAP!! Or a local CAP. The guy's crying poverty because he can't control his credit cards. Some people just don't know how to line up priorities.

don_52

homeowners insurance won't

cover it, so it makes everything else sorta moot.

if something were to happen the first thing an
investigator would want to know is "who installed
this boiler"?

this is one thing that is often overlooked in the
discussions of homeowner install.

something to think about.

regards, don

btw, michigan has multiple levels of "boiler licensure"

don_52

homeowners insurance won't

cover it, so it makes everything else sorta moot.

if something were to happen the first thing an
investigator would want to know is "who installed
this boiler"?

this is one thing that is often overlooked in the
discussions of homeowner install.

something to think about.

regards, don

btw, michigan has multiple levels of "boiler licensure"

will smith_2

Arrogant?!

Gentlemen- ordinarily, if a homeowner decided to install a device that has all the potential of an electrical chair, a bomb, and a poison gas machine, I'd say, "Hey buddy-not such a good idea." Not out of arrogance. Even if you're not family to me, I don't want to see anything bad happen to your family. A dentist isn't arrogant when he suggests you don't perform a root canal on your child-sure, you might pull it off-but something else might come with along the way.
Bottom line here: Those of us that come here to help do so because we love what we do. We're able to pass on some of the knowledge we've gained through the years to someone else looking for it. We don't get paid for it. We deal with homeowners one match away from heaven, homeowners looking to get out of paying a bill, and everything in between. If we get a feeling that someone's about to jump in over their heads-we have the right to say so.
We've been accused of being arrogant.
Let's step out the way and let a new word be born: Errorgant

Vaughn Hill

pardon me!

Ah yes i do pay my bills the reason i cant get credit is because i have none left. i own three house at this time. Not by choice mind you but waiting for them to sell. Owning three houses means three house payments, on a single income there is no bank in the world that will lend me money at this time. As luck may have it the house im going to live in is the one needing the boiler.

Dean_7

boiler install

I am a homeowner who has found much good information on this site. I have found none of the professionals here to be "arrogant". My parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles were all skilled tradespeople and taught me everything they could because I drove them crazy with questions. My grandfather was in the heating profession. I could probably install my own boiler if I really wanted to. Two years ago when I installed our new boiler I hired a pro to do it. One of the things my relatives taught me is how to recognize my own limitations. Plus carbon monoxide kills people. By the way I'm an RN who works in an ICU and I would not start an IV on myself even though I could. Some things are better left to others.

will smith_2

Vaughn-the point of my post was in no way shape or form to suggest YOU weren't paying YOUR bills. Simply this: If we (those of us that post help) think you need outside help, we say so.

tommyoil

WHAAAAT??

You own three houses and have a wife and kids and only two grand to your name???? Is it just me or is something way wrong with this picture. Sounds like you have much bigger problems than a new boiler. That being said, nobody here is being arrogant. Its knowledgable professionals trying to help a non-trained person determine where to draw the line between arrogant and assinine.I can see that some here (grey)cannot make that distinction. Good luck with your install. I hope that at the very least you pull all necessary permits so at least an inspector(such as they are)will sign off on whatever it is you do. If you cant hire a pro thats fine. We all have to do what we have to trying to survive and make ends meet. Just dont be more concerned with your wallet than you are about your families safety. It will NOT pay off.

RoosterBoy

I just think this guy is pulling all your chains and he is a guy that is cheep and is looking for someone to feel sorry for him and get a good deal on a heating system.

you know what I say if you think you can install the dam boiler yourself why are you coming here for?
sympathy?

three houses what a bunch of bull.
and your a jack of all trades :-)

here is what I would do since you cant sell a house yea right :-)

take a hit on the house and ask for what you paid for it and get yourself a pro to install your dam boiler cant go wrong there. this way you may not have made money but you got a heating system cant say that's nothing?

that or rent out one of the houses that you say you have.

oh I forgot you can install boilers :-)so buy one and do
yourself after you sell your house or rent it out

seems to me that you should have seen all the problems before you bought the house and did something about it sooner oh well I guess you learned something

I hate to see cheep people come on here and get all the pros on here to feel sorry for you. every tech here worked there A*S of to get to where they are and they don't need people like you trying to rip them off

thanks
rooster

RoosterBoy

I just think this guy is pulling all your chains and he is a guy that is cheep and is looking for someone to feel sorry for him and get a good deal on a heating system.

you know what I say if you think you can install the dam boiler yourself why are you coming here for?
sympathy?

three houses what a bunch of bull.
and your a jack of all trades :-)

here is what I would do since you cant sell a house yea right :-)

take a hit on the house and ask for what you paid for it and get yourself a pro to install your dam boiler cant go wrong there. this way you may not have made money but you got a heating system cant say that's nothing?

that or rent out one of the houses that you say you have.

oh I forgot you can install boilers :-)so buy one and do
yourself after you sell your house or rent it out

seems to me that you should have seen all the problems before you bought the house and did something about it sooner oh well I guess you learned something

I hate to see cheep people come on here and get all the pros on here to feel sorry for you. every tech here worked there A*S of to get to where they are and they don't need people like you trying to rip them off

thanks
rooster

Doug Murphy_3

Arrogant!

I think your right Rooster!

It's ironic though....I finally find a topic in here that I'm very familiar with and post a response to help someone out. Now I'm called arrogant. If you ever met me in person you could never make that assumption. Good luck Vaugh!

Joel M

Vaughn didnt say anyone was arrogant, that was from some guy named "grey". If he wants to install the boiler, everyone knows it is not a wise idea, some people just wont take advise! He just finds out in the fall heating season that the thing is scrap? something wrong here!

RoosterBoy

the thing that's wrong is that the guy has 3 house's and he cant pay a pro now to put in a boiler what a joke.

he should have done what I did I found a good company that I use to clean my forced air furnace every year last year
he did me a real favor I had a crack in my fire wall
and he told me you need a new system I can get you by this year and patch the wall with furnace cement but we will need to talk about putting in a new system soon

so I saved up for a whole year and called him
back. a few weeks ago

now I have all the buderus equipment in my basement ready for install in the next week or 2

the point is that he needs to do like the rest of us and pay the price.

it amazes me that people will spend all there money on a nice car and junk for the wife but when it comes down to the most important thing in there house that keeps them alive and warm the want to get cheep with it I don't understand that

if you cant afford to live in a house and pay the up keep then move into a rental apartment or find a house with no problems and get your self a good financial adviser to budget your money so you have money for when something like this dose come up. your ok

thanks
RoosterBoy

Jeff Lawrence_24

You beat me to it.

I have customers call me with a heating or cooling problem. I go to their house and see late model SUV's and granite countertops.

Then they cry because they'll have to pay 2-3 grand for the bottom of the line system.

I don't always get it.

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mark_40

toooo funny, Jeff !

yea ! ... $ 100,000 worth of cars in the driveway, 60" big screen TV ...... ooooh ! whadda ya mean, i gotta pay you $ 68/ hour to fix this ?? and .. of course .. for a new furnace ... they want absolutely the cheapest crap you can buy, installed for little or nothing ... BWWWAAAAAhahahah ! ... hell, i just had a call shortly after lunch .. lady wants to know how much a new furnace cost for her house ... the guy that's there want's to rip her off for $ 2100 .. !

Mike T., Swampeast MO

'Tis why

Even though I drive a simple car, have an old truck and refuse to buy a new TV until HDTV is mature the Vitodens was my only real choice for a replacement boiler.

Guests tell me they could live in my DIY master bath and had it not been DIY I could have bought a decent house in a tolerable neighborhood for less.

Give and take.

If I'm going to spoil the family with high-consumption things like a "car wash" steam shower, huge Jacuzzi tub and a caterer-ready kitchen, it seems downright piggish not to use the most efficient heating system imaginable.

S Ebels

GREY!

E-mail me and I'll tell you how this group of guys and a couple manufacturers got together and donated nearly all of what it took to put a $12,000 heating system in a young widows house.

This bunch is a lot of things but arrogant is not one of them! I think you're judging people you have never met based on personal prejudice or something along that line.

I'll quote an applicable statement from the Good Book for you. You would be wise to take it to heart.

"Do not judge or you to will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:1-2

Read that a few times and let it sink in. It'll do you good.

Vaughn Hill

You got me all wrong

I never called anyone arrogant.
Plus i dive a 1980 pickup truck. Not really over spending here. Now as for the three houses yes i own three houses. As of the 1st of octorber i bought a house as it happens to be that house came with another house on the same lot so i got two house for the price of one. Pretty good deal if you ask me. as for the third house that is the house that i live in right now. so yes i do at this time have three houses. The house needing the new boiler is the house i am going to live in as it is the nices and needs the least work. (besides the boiler) If i could only make it though this winter i could save up all next summer to get the new boiler installed by a pro. Which i know would be the smart thing to do, but that isnt going to keep my butt warm this winter now is it.

As for the guy making some kind of a big deal out of me having bigger problems i would like to know what those problems are! and for another thing my kids are grown and out of the house.

And one last thing i didnt come here looking for a hand out, pitty, or anything else only advice on installing a boiler myself. I never called anyone a name or insulted anyone, at least not purpose if i did. I know you guys are the pros and thats is why i came here, figuring you guys would know what your talking about.

By the way i have another pro coming friday for another estimate on installing a boiler for me. If i cant get that done then ill ask if he can get this boiler though the winter for me.

ScottMP

Vaughn

Your doing the right thing by asking a Pro.

So why not take a equity loan on one of your house's ?

Then you'll have the money to not only do the install BUT do a really good install. Guess which part of the house new buyers allways try and take money off for ... " Well we'll have to replace the boiler ! "

Good Luck, and even thought it started a hornets nest, you did ask for advice .... and got it. Most all agreed that you should not do it by your self. Thats the best advice you could get.

Scott

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wayne_11

There are some things you can do yourself: Think about how the workers are going to access the area. If there is a way to get their vehicles close to that access provide it. I make sure that every vehicle on my job is out of the way when the HVAC is coming. Even if I have to walk half a block to and from my own truck (and I am the boss). Don't expect these guys to take off their shoes. If they have to travel on your white carpet cover it. Move anything and everything that is around the boiler location. Give them all the room available to move and work. It looks like you would only need a few feet around a boiler to do this job but in reality if you give them half a basement to work in, they will use it. The more room they have the more efficient they will work.
Ask the pro you decide on if you can do the demo. Some companies send out grunts to do this anyway. This should not be a problem for most companies. Have them do the electrical and fuel disconnect for you ahead of time and get the old monster out of the way before they show up to install. The old boiler can be disassemble or even broken into pieces to allow you to handle the weight. Don't just move it off to the side, get it out of there and clean up.
When it comes to install day, make yourself available to answer any questions that they may have. That does not mean that you should be looking over their shoulder, making small talk, attempting to help them physically, or getting a lesson on boiler installation. Stay out of it unless they need you to make a decision. Go to your own job and make money at what you know best. Have your cell phone charged and give them the number.
This is the highest paid trade in construction today. The hourly rates are in the 50-70 on average. It does not matter if these guys are setting combustion, sweeping the floor or walking back and forth to the truck, you are paying that rate when they are on your job. Do what you can to spend that money wisely and you just might find it is a bargain.
Yes I can install a boiler. I have done it in may own home. But I have been in the remodeling business for a very long time with extensive experience in plumbing and electrical. I also spent literally hundreds of hours research and study of the heating trade. Not to save a buck nor do I plan on getting into that business but to understand it better because it relates to almost every job I do in some sense. I also find in perhaps a sick sort of way pipe fitting to be an art form. Same with electrical service panels. But that's another story..The point is that if I took a part time job at McDonalds and worked the number of hours I have invested in understand HVAC well enough to install one single model boiler, I am sure I could pay for a boiler install or two with that paycheck. My customers will comment on my knowledge of the remodeling industry (we do a complete turn-key service from excavation to floor-covering) No sub-contractors with the exception of HVAC. I often reply "Well it really is not rocket science" Installing a boiler is not rocket science either. But today it is close. Damn close.

Mark Mathys

You Guys Ought to be Ashamed

Is this HeatingHelp.com or CriticizeAPersonAskingForAdvice.com? I doubt if any of you are professional financial counselors yet you are sure pointing out his weaknesses and giving lots of advice. People have different reasons for the financial shape they are in but it's unfair to jump to conclusions. The man said he only had so much money to work with so that is that, the reason is irrelevant. You don't need to make him fell like a deadbeat because he doesn't have the resources to hire the job out. I think a few simple warnings would have been better, such as "get a permit", "have it inspected", "get a pro to setup the burner", "get a pro to check the venting", "read Dan's books", "don't do this part yourself", etc. etc. etc. I'm just a lowly homeowner and I know my limitations, but I also know there is a lot I can do myself and I enjoy being as self sufficient as possible. Some of you had really good advice but others were just downright mean.

Mark

S Ebels

Call this guy

Climatec HVAC in Marlette. I don't know how close you are to that but he's the best guy I know in that general area.
989-635-2665

I would dare bet he may work with you as far as letting you do some of the work. I doubt if he'd install a RayPak though.

Michelle_2

If you only need to get through this winter

Not sure how many rooms you have, but you can always go to Menards/HomeDepot/Lowes or whatever home-improvement store there is near you and buy some Oil Filled Heaters like DeLonghi, Lakewood or Marvin that costs here in Chicago anywhere between $30-$40. Just plug them in to an outlet and you got heat. You can always resell them in your local newspaper or during a garage sale later.
Michelle

Mike T., Swampeast MO

It's the kind of question GUARANTEED to spark passionate replies from passionate people.

A few years ago I had a plantar's wart. It's a common wart on the sole of the foot, but unfortunately they live below the skin instead of on the surface. Truly annoying and obnoxiously painful.

Went to a podiatrist for many visits. He told me he'd try other things before surgical removal. All I got was an increasingly festering sore and a lighter checkbook. I could see the root of the darned thing by probing lightly so did my own surgery--but I certainly didn't ask the doctor how! Nor will I recommend that someone else do it...

Kal Row

good advice for all...maybe...

the cost of gas has gotten to the point where those electric oiled filed ones in plain site (so you can benefit from the radiant heat also) is quickly becoming a very economical choice –
another choice is infra-red heat lamps in your tv cabinet or overhead pointing at you, and dimmed to the point where you cant actually sense them – the idea of proper radiant is to feel nothing – ie no heat flowing in or out of your body

the only catch is with the air in the house cold, how do you keep the water pipes from freezing at extremities, – ah – so now, you need hot water recirculators, that do it, through the cold water pipes to keep them warm, with all sorts of stuff – “I just love it when a plan come together…”

Kal Row

co/gas detectors...

at the very least you need one combo unit near the boiler and one flight up from the boiler in the hall...

at the very least you need one combo unit near the boiler and one flight up from the boiler in the hall...

then, you can knock yourself out without me loosing sleep over it

- you can buy a nice slant-fin boiler from HOME-DEsPOT
- you can download the heatloss calculator from them to get the size right
- and get some of HD's handymen to help you, don’t know about 2000, around 3 is more like it

- and the $85 dollar book from siggi at http://www.hydronicpros.com/Publications/MHH2/MHH2.htm wont kill ya - at least then, you will completely understand what we are telling you

THERE REALLY IS NO NEED FOR ALL THIS SPARING AND DEMEANING!!!, WE RESERVE THAT FOR REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE SPORTS , THOUGH, THE POSSIBILITY, OF A PERSON GETTING KILLED, BY CARBON MONOXIDE, DOES TEND, TO GET OUR PASSIONATE IRISH UP

Mark Mathys

Mike you make a good point. I would never think of going to the local plumbing & heating shop to ask how to install my own boiler any more than I would bring my own sandwich to the restaurant. I don't see a problem however using any resource available on the Internet to learn as much as you can. This site is a great resource! A year ago I hadn't heard of Primary/Secondary, Pumping Away, Dan Holohan, Outdoor Reset, or a whole bunch of other things. Tonight I'm going to stop an buy a CO2 detector and when I replace my hotwater heater it will have a tempering valve.

Thanks to everyone!

Vaughn Hill

carbon dioxide detectors

I all ready have a detector in the basement but i beleave ill get another for the 1st floor.

For the one who asked the house has 12 rooms counting the bathrooms and all. the house is two story. Is around 1900 Sq ft. Its an old four square house if you know what that design is.

One more day and ill have a new estimate on a pro install.

A couple of you mentioned electric heaters and ive thought of them to get me though the winter but i was wondering if they might not be a good idea because of the age of this house. The service panel has the push button type breakers in it. And im not sure but i may only have 60 amp service. All of the wires i can see coming out of the panel are white plastic three wire type. But when i changed a over head light upstairs it only had two of the old cloth wrapped wires on it. There isnt any of the realy old knob type wires in the house that i have seen though.

Floyd_7

Hey Murph!!!!!

This thread reminds me of something that you would be up to....


Got to looking at all the posters to the thread and Mark's name is conspicuously absent.....but you two are just a havin' a blast with this....

Anyway... this can't be a serious thread.... too much fishy stuff goin' on here......

Carbon dioxide detector???? get real....

Doug_18

Carbon Monoxide

Vaughn,

You need a carbon monoxide (CO) detector not carbon dioxide. And you need to place them in the living area of you house, most importantly in the sleeping area. If the alarm goes off in the basement while you are asleep upstairs it may not wake you and you may sadly become another statistic in a too long list of preventable deaths. That said, there is no substitute for having a proper test done to insure that the combustion gases from your haeting system are not infiltrating the living space of your home.

Michelle_2

electric-heating tape

Not trying to be a smarta**, just asking a question:
Couldn't you use electric-heating tape on the pipes in the basement and drain the water from the boiler system? I'm going to guess it would work best if he has copper pipes though. Not sure if this would work.

Joe_47

diy

Guys as a guy who does all his own work around the house, and no money to speak of. I must tell you first i am a manufactures rep for Lochinvar boilers in upstate ny. You DO NOT want to attemt this yourself. Yes most of the work you may be able to "handle" yourself. But I strongley recommend getting profesional help. These guys (although some of them some like jerks) are right. You can die if you do it wrong
thanks
joe

Vaughn Hill

Got the shaft again

Today i had a 1:30 appointment setup to have a "pro" come over and give me a estimate.When He never showed up I thought well he may have got stuck at another job or what ever, crap happens. Well at 2:00 when the "Pro" still didnt show up i called him. Well he said he couldnt make it today and would be out next Monday. So i guess its ok for me to miss work and my pay to sit around waiting on this guy. He couldnt even call me early enough to let me know. how rude. Now i know none of you guys would ever do this but of course i get the shaft again.

Now my time(at work) isnt $79 an hour like this guys but its still my lively hood and he caused me to lose money.

KMD

I have a masters license in HVAC, but my experience has been in shet metal fabrication and forced air systems. I also have a 4 year degree in mechanical engineering and design cooling systems foe military aircraft now. I am the cheapest SOB around ask any of my friends or my wife. I am very handy have built a house changed motors, etc.. I paid a professional to install a new boiler in my house do yourself a favor and pay somebody for the right system you are not saving any money. I visit this site daily for several years now just to educate myself in hydronics and still dont feel confident to start installing systems.

Good luck

Weezbo

it mightstill be in the cards.... dont give up.