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Oil Tank Done Pictures RoosterBoy Job

RoosterBoy
RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459
well you all have been waiting and im now done I did not have a lot of time like I said to work on it but I did a little each day let me know what you think

I did one hell of a tight job and used megaloc pipe dope

tomorrow is the big day my new buderus and lt 160 with 2109 will be here in the morning.

i hope my hvac contractor will like my oil tank job i will post pictures of my new boiler and hw tank when it's all done.

thanks
RoosterBoy

Comments

  • Maine Ken
    Maine Ken Member Posts: 531


    That "mega pipe dope" isn't teflon based is it????
  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    no it is not teflone based i was told by you all not to use that here is the stuff i used
  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
    oil tank

    i hope this new tank isnt in Ma. it does not meet state code for install plus homeowners cannot pull permit to install an oil tank in Ma.

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  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    hi ed what is not code about my tank i thought i did a good job there is a vent alarm gauge 2" vent and 2" fill pipe

    my oil man said i did a real nice job and he will be filling it in a week

    thanks
  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
    oil tank

    no swing joints no permit to install pulled by a ooil burner tech tank is level it sould pitch down ward toward the outlet you never shouwd pics of oil line is it new or did you reuse old oil line

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  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    my hvac contractor is puting in the new oil line because he is installing a new boiler and hotwater tank

    what is swing joint? my old tank had a 90 coming up and a 3 inch threded both ends then 45 then stright out the wall

    and the tank is a bit higher in the back then the front 1/2 inch my old tank lasted 35 years and it was level

    my new one was alot harder for me to do

    so are you saying that this tank will not fill and work ?
    i would love to see a picture of your tank just so i can see what i did wrong and what a swing joint looks like
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    Here is what I could dig up

    ... not knowing what a swing joint ought to look like on a oil system, I fired up Google images for swing joint". Aha!

    Next, I took a look at the tank install in our basement to see if we have such a joint on the vent and the fill side. If you look closely, sure enough, they're there! (red arrows) As best as I can tell, the swing joint is to allow the pipe to swivel via a joint/coupling in two directions instead of relying on the pipe/coupling to pick up the stress, should the pipe move relative to the tank.

    Why this sort of joint is necessary in a modern basement I do not know. Perhaps in a dirt basement that rises and falls with the climate this is of interest. In a modern house with a concrete floor firmly attached to a concrete foundation, I suspect that the swing joint is an anachronism. But I'm happy to be wrong, the Wall is all about education!

    Perhaps Ed and others can be kind enough and enlighten us further re: the reason a swing joint is needed and/or code.
  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    my basement is a full basement and dose not rise up and down I have a concrete floor

    thanks

  • Boston Boiler
    Boston Boiler Member Posts: 70


    You don't need swing joints on an indoor tank in MA. Tank pitch must be 1/4" per foot.

    BB


  • hay I think it looks like a real nice job you should not have any problems with that tank. and rooster I was one of the guys that said you did not need a pro for this one.

    when I saw you lay it all out in pvc and you showed us how you where going to do it. I had a good feeling that you could do this job.

    and you proved me right you did a real nice job. when your HVAC contractor gets done with your buderus install post the pictures we would love to see it

    good luck
    Brian
  • David_15
    David_15 Member Posts: 5


    Why would you want to pitch the tank (sludge) towards the outlet (code nonwithstanding, if it is code). Then again why would anyone buy anything other then a Roth type steel/poly syphon tank (other then price) which will surely outlive the era of heating oil in homes.

    Not that it's a big deal, but if you want to be technical you also need a permit to pull the old oil tank in MA, which also must be disposed of in a MA licensed tank dismantling yard.
  • Boston Boiler
    Boston Boiler Member Posts: 70


    1/4" per foot tank pitch is code in MA., easier to get a little water out than have it build over time also. As for the Roth, more people DON"T have a Lincoln Navigator in their driveways than do. The Rooster put a lot of time and effort into this project, this is his Lincoln.

    BB
  • B. Tice
    B. Tice Member Posts: 206


    Hey Rooster, you don't need a job, do ya? I think it's a nice job. We will see about the plastic tanks. A good 12 gauge Granby will outlast me, I know that much.
  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177


    YOU FORGOT THE CLEVIS HANGERS to support your piping and relieve stress. swing also relieves stress. 45's are real nice but sometimes are not practical and can add unnecessary labor to a project. did not notice any pipe sleeves on penetrations.might of saved some time with square breaks and could have concentrated on the serious stuff.not much left of the lumber you cut through. looks real good to the untrained eye.with your labor and the pvc job would probably bill out at about 5 K + SIGN-OFF
  • Bob , got any pics handy

    of your own work ? Seems like you're overreaching here to find faults that aren't even there . Looks to me like a nice install , and good old Roostey had the sack to post his pics .

    But what do I know living in Long Oil Land .
  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    it was nice to see that some people said I did a nice job
    I think I did a nice job for my first tank.

    I have seen some real hacks out there with bad looking jobs

    for what I had and everything against me with not being able to blow out the block wall and the floor joices running the wrong way I think I did a good job for what I had.

    and I would find it hard to find someone that could do better with what I had

    thanks everyone my buderus boiler and lt 160 tank and all stuff is here in my garage and my HVAC contractor will be working on installing it all in a week so keep an eye out for the pictures :-)

    i am 27 and i wish i could get into hvac and work for a good contractor but i think it's too late for me i am smart and i do good work and do what i am asked to do.

    what could a guy like me who is 27 and wants to work in the hvac trade do to get on the job training and work for near nothing to start

    thanks
  • David_15
    David_15 Member Posts: 5


    BB, I think you want water and sludge pitching ANYWHERE but the outlet to the burner.

    Regardless of what you or the building code in MA says, I don't think burners burn water or sludge very well. I just did a quick flip thru 6th ed 780 CMR I assume the code you are quoting is in 527 CMR? If you want a tank that can drain water or sludge you want one with a small pressed sump in the bottom with a drain plug or you want it pitching the OTHER way from the burner feed with a drain plug on that end.

    I'm not knocking his install at all, looks good.
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
    Question

    If the tank is pitched away from the outlet, won't water and sludge build up eventually and then become a bigger problem as it reaches the outlet ??

    Scott

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  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    I agree...

    ... as long the tank is sloped towards the filter, the minute amounts of water and sludge can be handled by the (regularly changed, right?) filter.

    You want to avoid any and all water, if possible. When it settles to the bottom of the tank it not only promotes corrosion in steel tanks, but it also might encourage microbe growth, causing even more sludge.

    On our boat, we have three sets of filters of decreasing sizes to protect the injectors on the diesel engine. There are many stories out there of folks who got into a lot of trouble in survival storms because the sludge at the bottom of their fuel tanks got stirred up by the motion, then clogged their filters and/or injectors.

    Now, I doubt that most of us will have to deal with a moving oil tank, but getting the sludge and water out continuously has to be one of the best ways to ensure the stuff does not accumulate and cause trouble in the first place.
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    David

    I understand your thinking, but it's wrong.You do NOT want water and sludge building up in a tank. Regular filter changes take care of this.
  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    I was planning on using a oil tank treatment every fill up to the tank I was hoping this would take care of any sludge and water problems

    and guys I did the best job I could with what I had to work with.

    some of you remember that I wanted to come straight out of the with a 7 inch threaded both ends then a 90 with a closed nipple then a 90 now I have a swing joint that I can angle anyway I want then I was going to add a 24 inch aimed up between the floor Joyce then add another 90 closed nipple and a 90 then straight outside.

    but my thinking was it was going to be a b**ch of a slow fill so I did it with 45's to make it the fastest way to fill the tank with the least amount of bends

    thanks
    Rooster
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    Agree...

    ... though I would not know what details to look for in a "proper" tank install. However, the steel piping looks really neat and the PVC mockup was a great idea to get all the pipe lengths right from the start.
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    No need for that, IMHO.

    If you maintain your filters properly and monitor them regularly, you'll be aware of an issue before it clogs your burner. Putting in diesel treatments every time you have a fillup is a waste of money, IMHO.

    I'd spend the money on installing a good filtration system instead. Racor makes some really nice stuff for the marine side, filtering water, debris, etc. all the way down to 2 microns. I plan on having similar filtration in our basement to protect the nozzle in Ms. Vitola. If you want the best, look no further than the offerings in the marine industry though - plenty of disposable income there.

    Some marine filtration systems come with a water alarm and a bypass manifold where you can switch from one filter to a parallel one without interrupting the flow of fuel. Then simply change out the first filter and/or drain the water, followed by switching back when the second filter is clogged and/or needs attention. See Racor's web-page for more info on their filter.

    Only large, mission-critical applications warrant this kind of stuff, however... the manifolded version costs nearly $1000. Plus, I doubt that most heating systems would develop the flow required to keep the turbines in these filter elements happy. But, if you happen to have a customer that is feeling spendy and/or lives in the boondocks and contends with a lot of dirty fuel, this sort of system could set your proposal apart from the others.
  • The head of our oil tank crew

    started in the trade at 38 . Never too late to start .
  • To pitch or not to pitch

    Yes , I agree that pitching the tank toward the drain will keep the tank a little more clean of sludge , but not by much . We come across a great many tanks either pitched or not pitched , and both still hold onto alot of sludge - it can accumulate up to over a foot up the walls .

    We also have a great many outside tanks with no bottom outlet that are lasting just as long as bottom feeders .

    My own oil tank was made for indoors , was outside for over 25 years without a cover , saw many , many batches of used , contaminated oil , was kept below 1/4 tank most of it's life , and was 2 pipe from the top . When I changed it out to a used Roth tank , I pumped out at least 20 gallons of cruddy water from the bottom . It never leaked .
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    Wow!

    I guess you're lucky that the tank was never drawn down to the point where the water was getting sucked into the oil system! BTW, I really like the Roth tanks myself. I have two 275 Gallon models in my cellar. Should outlive me.

    On the marine side of things, there are folks that sell "fuel polishing" rigs. Think of a set of 3 filters, a fuel pump, some tubing all attached to a board for easy transportation. At the beginning of each season, go a-hunting for water and/or sludge at the bottom/sides of the tank (the cleaned diesel is returned to the tank). Keep "polishing" until the tank is reasonably clean.

    Other folks go the atomic bomb route. Take the tank out, empty it, then fill it with MEK or Acetone, shake, empty, shake, empty, etc. until the solvent comes out clear. Kills/gets out most of the bad stuff. But not a very benign process, that's for sure!
  • Robert O'Connor_6
    Robert O'Connor_6 Member Posts: 299
    Never too

    late. Start taking some classes at the local Tech school and see where it takes ya. Look for a company that has guys that have been around a while.

    If ya don't like the big outfits look for a contractor with a great reputation in your community and approach him.

    It' s never to late you just have to start.

    Regards

    Robert

    ME
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    I started

    I went into this buisness at the age of 30. I had spent the previous 10 year's in law enforcement. I started out driving a delivery truck and then moved into service. I have read everything i could possibly find and listened to every old timer out there who would talk to me. If you enjoy this type of work, go for it. Just listen, listen and when you know what your doing, listen some more. And if you ever feel you know it all, quit and retire before you hurt someone..:) IMHO...
  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177
    pipefitting techniques

    serious mechanics welcome constructive critisism.if they wish they can benefit from fresh ideas or ignore them. never meant to be mean just viewing the job through the eyes of an old experienced plumber-pipefitter.
  • doug_16
    doug_16 Member Posts: 62
    Why bother with

    3 stages of filters in descending pore sizes for either fuel polishing or direct engine feed? Why not just use a set of 2 micron filters? All the filters have the same fuel flow rates so it would seem that changing different microm sizes is more than required. Why not just keep changing one type?
  • You're absolutely right

    Constructive criticism can benefit everyone . Going by your seasoned eyes , I would guess all your oil tank installs are very high caliber . I ask once again , would you have any pics of the quality work I assume you do ?

    Oh , by the way , some constructive criticism - using 45s is actually a benefit to an oil tank install , in my humble opinion .
  • Actually , I did

    draw some water with the oil on the occasions where I let the tank run dry . Take it from me , don't ever lift one end of the tank off the ground to get whats left to the other end and the oil lines . Not a pretty sight .

    The Roth tanks are sweet huh ? I don't like the outside cover though - kinda chincy for top of the line equipment .
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    Cascades are useful for longevity

    The 2 micron filter might clog up too quick. The last thing you want is a dirt spec to make the life of you injection pump/nozzle miserable. By putting a easily replaced 30/15 micron filter at the beginning with a show-glass, it's pretty easy to see the sludge making its appearance.
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,782
    I think of it as cost effective! ;-P

    I actually like the Roths for their exterior cover...it's rust resistant, shiny, and easy to clean. Maybe I'm just a fan of the galvanized "flake" pattern.

    They make it light, rugged, it has carrying handles, a built-in leak detector, etc. and even the largest model can be manhandled by two, possibly three guys into a basement. If someone asked me to move a traditional, bulky ¼" thick steel tank with a 400 gallon capacity, I'd just laugh in desperation! Besides, the built-in leak detector is really nifty.
  • David_15
    David_15 Member Posts: 5


    My Roth doesn't pitch, it sits dead level as any tank should.

    I have removed and decommissioned many (100+) tanks (100-50k gal). I have seen tanks that had been in the ground for 30 years and the insided looked brand new to a tank that was in the ground for 15 years and didn't have a bottom anymore. I figured in about 50 years (after I am dead and fossil fuels are no longer used) I'll have to get a vac truck and suck out about 10-20 gal of sludge and water from the bottom of my indoor syphon tank.

    It was/is common practice to loosen the drain plug on the tanks of heavy equipment (moving oil tanks) to drain water/sludge once a year. 80% of the time the plug sits in a pressed sump. Most modern (<5 years) heavy equipment has water/fuel separators. I've seen machines burn 520 to 120k gals a year. I've only seen it become a problem once when a company was buying fuel from Joe's Contaminated Fuel Oil. Giant ice cube in tank in Dec = not fun.

    Diesel engines 9.9 times out ten run with a 'larger' primary filter and then a 'smaller' secondary.

    Bottom line is contamination should not be a problem unless you are buying oil from a dealer who doesn't have a top on his storage tank/truck or cuts his fuel with water or dirt. If you are still worried about it, buy a tank with a pressed sump on the bottom and drain it every year. Or pitch the sludge away from the outlet (outlet end up - oil floats on water and sludge) and have a drain plug on the very bottom that you can drain once a year.

    Oh, and the other bottom line, don't quote the code unless you actually know what it is. 'We'll you see so and so told me' doesn't cut it. Buy the code and read it. Then impress us with your knowledge (This isn't directed at anyone in particular).
  • joe_44
    joe_44 Member Posts: 1
    tank code

    Since there seems to be some controversy about code requirements for tanks, I thought that it might be appropriate to post the Massachusetts code for fuel oil tanks:

    CMR 4.04 (6)(e) "When a supply tank larger than ten gallon (38 L) capacity is provided with an opening in the bottom for use as a burner supply connection or as a drain, the tank shall be pitched toward the opening with a slope of not less than ¼ inch per foot (6.35 mm per 0.3 m) of length."

    By the way, the code is available on line, although with a disclaimer that the online form is not "official"
  • RoosterBoy
    RoosterBoy Member Posts: 459


    for me it's to late. I have a small pitch but I had a level tank all my life with no problems.

    I am going to use a fuel treatment to my oil to stop sludge and water

    that job was the best I could do with what I had to work with

    the floor running the way it is and not being able to blow out through the wall

    I am happy with it. I think for my first tank I did a good job

    thanks
    RoosterBoy

  • Boston Boiler
    Boston Boiler Member Posts: 70
    David

    Just a note on the code that Joe posted. That is from the
    527CMR not the 780CMR. 527CMR is the one that the Fire Marshal in MA signs you off to, if it doesn't meet code , it doesn't get signed and it doesn't run.

    Thanks Joe, you read the code and impressed us with your knowledge like David wanted.

    BB
  • steve_59
    steve_59 Member Posts: 2
    code

    Thank you for the kind comments about my posting of the code.

    By the way, I am just a DIY homeowner who is interested in hydronics. I have not done and do not plan to do any work on my oil supply system or oil burner, although I'm certainly tempted to take on tasks that don't require specialized test equipment or experience with oil burners. For example, I'd like to be able to change my oil filter -a task I can't do because my local supplier refuses to sell filters to someone who isn't a licensed tech.
  • Dave Palmer_3
    Dave Palmer_3 Member Posts: 388
    swinging

    A swing joint is for when a tank gets filled sometimes about half way filled they flex. The joint keeps the tank from cracking fittings or leg damage.Looks great,Dave
This discussion has been closed.