Combustion Analyzer

Wirenut

Would like to purchase an Electronic Combustion Analyzer. Do you like the electronics, & what's your recommendation. Unit will be used 90% on residential oil burners & 10% on gas burners. Right now Johnstone has a Bacharard 24-8217 on special, also UEI models C50, C75 & C100A/COPBX. Any input would be appreciated
Wirenut

Glenn Harrison_2

My 2¢ worth

I have a Testo 300XL Combustion analyzer. It works well in the fact that you get instant and continuous readings, you don't have to do the math for CO2 and Eff. readings, and you can print out your startup, running, and shutdown readings, for documentation.

The downfall is that you have to budget and plan for maintenance of the unit. The O2 sensor will last 1 to 2 years, and can cost $100 to $150 dollars. The CO sensor will average 2 to 4 years, at a cost of $350 to $450 to replace. You also should have it calibrated once a year to make sure it is reading accurately. There's also the printer paper and ink if you get/use the printer.

All that being said, it is worth while and will make you a better tech/installer, and make for better burner set-ups.

As far as brands, I feel you can't go wrong with any Bacharach unit. Testo is another good unit, but being a German engineered meter, it responds a little slower than a Bacharach, and they seem to charge more for parts than Bacharach does. I have no experience with UEI so I can't help you with that.

One last thing, make sure if you haven't already done so, that you get training on using your analyzer and interpreting the readings. Rudy Leatherman of Bacharach Training, Jim Davis of National Comfort Institute, Tim McElwain, Alan Mercurio, and George "Firedragon" Lanthier all have great classes on Combustion analysis. Also make sure you check out www.bacharach-training.com for more information.

Robert O'Connor_6

I

have a Bacharach Fyrite Pro 125. Very happy with it . It is everything I need it to be in an anlyzer. Service from Bacharach seems to be 2-3 weeks.

It is an extremely useful tool. I have had it a few years now and can't believe how many years i didn't have one of these.

Regards

Robert

ME

Rudy

Do keep in mind.....

The bottom line (I’m sure Glenn and Robert would agree) is that the investment of an analyzer (and associated upkeep) will quickly pay back.

I was reminded of that today. Went out to look at a furnace. Even the homeowner could see it needed cleaning (that’s why he called, of course). Just wanted me to stop by and give him an ‘estimate’.

Ran a test when I got there – the instrument read over 4,000ppm CO air free in the flue gases (with the HO standing over my shoulder).

Without the instrument, I would have just given him an ‘opinion’: “Yea, it needs cleaning” (which he already knew) and he probably would have called a couple of other contractors in to give him their ‘opinions’ (and more importantly, $$$$$).

With the instrument, I presented him with a fact, “This is operating really, really dangerously and you and/or your family could be seriously hurt or killed.”

Spent 2 hours cleaning it out, adjusted the gas pressure (which was most of the problem) and showed the HO a final reading of 27ppm CO air free.

That ‘fact’ immediately get me the job - I had hard copy documentation that there was a serious problem and documentation that the problem was resolved.

Plus, I know the before/after printouts I left him will get shown to several of the neighbors and since they live down my road, the emergency squad sirens won't wake me up late some night....

As far as which particular unit to get, the best two have already been mentioned - if you have any questions about the Bacharach instruments, feel free to give me a call.

rudy

eleft_4

Wirenut I posted this for you from 10/18

al

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=19816&mc=4

Wirenut

Thanks for the help
Wirenut

marty D_2

My experience

I have both the Fryrite pro and the testo 325m. Both good
tools. The problem I have, and may be a defective instrument
from factory is that Bach tester returns a stack temp up to
100 deg higher than the testo, giving of course a lower efficiency. I had both testers hooked to the flue of a new
steam boiler install the other day and there was the delta
in the stack temp. So, I got a thermometer from the wet kit
and it read the same temp within a few deg of the testo. So,
since the bach tester was just returned from cal, it makes me suspicious of its accuracy with stack temp. All other readings are real close between both testers. Anybody else
noticed this problem? I do like the ease of draft reading with the Bach over the testo.

Robert O'Connor_6

Rudy

Hi Marty

The stack tcouple channel can be very easily calibrated. Read in the manual under calibration.

If you don't have a tcouple simulator just use an ice bath and boiling water as reference. (just remember to disconnect the probe!!)

Normally, I'd just have you send it back to the service center but this is not a good time of the year to be without an instrument.

If you have any questions, give me a call (412-576-1350)

marty D_2

Thanks

Rudy
Thanks, I will try the cal procedure.

Marty

mark_40

testo ...

i have had a lotta trouble with the testo service dept ... UEI ****, which is surprising since they are essentially K-M ... heard nothin' but good about the NEW Bacharach ( not the suitcase! ) ... and Rudy ....

Brian_24

Testo is too slow for my taste. I have been using pca25's with good luck. As soon as the new tsi is available with the back lit display I will buying one of those. Tried one at my recertification class with Jim Davis and found it to be easy to use and read. Good luck and keep testing,
Brian

Mark Hunt

HEY RUDY!!!!!!

Man it was GREAT to finally meet you!

Here's one for ya'.

Got a call the other day from the mother of a good customer of ours. Her tenent was told that the "soot" on her walls was coming from her gas fired, hot water boiler. She was told this by a fire restoration company (no they did not test the boiler).

First question I ask is, "Does your tenent burn candles?" and of course the answer was "Yes". But I had to go and TEST to be ABSOLUTELY sure.

Test in, 0% CO ambient in living space and combustion appliance zone. Draft on the boiler was -.02 with no spillage FROM THE DRAFT HOOD on start up. Monitoring from a test hole BEFORE the draft hood shows a spike at light-off of 120ppm which drops to 57ppm in less than one minute. CO levels then begin to rise to over 400ppm (not air free!) at which point I disabled the system, as in, it can't run anymore.

A visual inspection revealed burn marks on the exterior jacket of this 70's vintage Weil-Mclain CG boiler. In fact, the jacket got hot enough to turn spit into steam. (I did spit on the boiler with the customer standing there)

The refractory material on the base box had fallen off on both sides and the base box was burned completely through. Now I want EVERYONE to keep in mind that this boiler was serviced EVERY YEAR BY A REPUTABLE HEATING COMPANY. Their stickers were prominently displayed on the boiler.

Nice blue flame though!

I have used both Testo and Bacharach, and both units perform well. However, Testo units do not react as quickly as Bacharach units and therefore will miss "spikes" that the Bacharach finds. The Testo is designed more for "Steady State" testing and will not catch fluctuations like the Bacharach will. (I'm not on Bacharach's payroll folks, just stating facts)

I paid a little over $800 for my Fyrite-Pro 120 with a printer and it has paid for itself 100 times over at the very least. I hate to use the "Dollar on a stick" approach, but if that's what it takes to get folks serious about this then so be it.

TRAINING is VITAL!!!! You need to know what the numbers mean! You need to know how to fix what can be fixed and replace that which cannot, AND how to tell the difference.

Sorry for the long post, but my eyes were opened up to a whole new world when I started to learn about what happens when I set something on fire in a customers house. And that is PRECISELY what we do. We set things on fire.

I'll go on record as a bona fide Bacharach nut and our units get a SERIOUS work out. Every home we enter, every appliance we meet.

Rudy, thanks for the T-shirt!!!!!

Mark H

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tim smith

Testo

I have several testos, last time one went in for service it took nearly 10 weeks to get back. I may try Bacharach again. Although my prior experience with the 1st of the Fyrites was not good, went through 3+ with long service waits between. Also had the earlier UEI, ??? not great. My only concern is to get a year out of the sensors and get good turn arounds, 3 weeks or less on repair and maint.