Should hot or cold water enter the boiler

Anna

I have a 2 family house, boiler is a lenox 150,000 btu gas/steam one pipe system. It takes a good 45-60 minutes before the entire house is warm and radiators are going full force.

A plumber told me it was because I had cold water entering the boiler and if it was hot water it would bring the steam on much more quickly, he says if I change this, it should only take 10 minutes what is now taking 45 minutes.

Should I have him change the cold water to hot water?

Constantin

I'm a mere fellow homeowner...

...but the statement your plumber made makes no sense to me. Perhaps someone else can enlighten the two of us.

As I see it, the only water that ought to be in your boiler is the water that it will turn into steam. From time to time, a steam system will need some replacement water but given the amounts (a few gallons) and the frequency (every two weeks or so in the middle of winter) makes me think that the make-up water temperature will have no effect on system response whatsoever.

I think what the plumber is trying to sell you is a warm-start vs. a cold start option on the boiler. By keeping the water inside the boiler warmer, it takes less energy and hence less time to get the boiler up to steaming temperatures. While system responsiveness will undoubtedly improve, I will wager that your energy losses will increase as well.

Here is what I would do: Buy Dans excellent consumer guides to steam heat called "We got Steam Heat!" and "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". Educate yourself about your system and you'll perhaps discover that the sluggish system responsiveness you're experiencing now has nothing to do with the water temperature inside the boiler but exposed steam pipes in basement spaces, the lack of main vents, etc.

After all, even an experienced plumber does not qualify automatically to be a hydronics or, better yet, steam expert (and vice-versa). Each trade has its areas of expertise. Unless the plumber you spoke to also happens to be a steam-heating expert (not just a mere installer of replacement equipment), try Finding a Professional.

lchmb

I also agree

but one question, as it get's colder do you still have trouble getting heat or does your system keep up? Some would say keeping a boiler warm is also better for the unit as well as making a faster response. But you do use fuel during the summer month's.

Dave Bush

It's bullhockey. (Whatever that is.)

If you have THAT much makeup water entering your boiler, then you have problems that greatly outweigh the makeup water temp.

You need to speak to a different heating contractor.

pete_14

make up water

get second opinion!!!! there is no resaon to connect hot water to boiler fill.when you need to add water to boiler will it be operating at that time ? do you have auto water feed? running boiler to maintain heat will greatly increase fuel costs

Anna

I have an automatic feed

and I do have Dan's books, I guess I'll have to start reading.

When the plumber mentioned about the hot water it made sense to me. But now that I think about it, the boiler doesn't fill up with water unless it needs it. I guess he was just trying to suggest the hot water idea so that I would get heat quicker, like shortly after I turn the thermostat up after it has been off all day. I do have the steam pipes insulated in the boiler room but not in the entire basement because it is living space.

Jon G.

boiler water temp

Allthough this doesn't appear to be the case in anna's house, I'm surprised no-one mentioned the possibility of return line leaks. I've uncovered some hidden gushers in my time.
To test: Overfill the boiler just slightly, so that low-water cutoff doesn't interfere with normal boiler operation, but not so much that water gets up into the pipes and starts banging. Then turn off the valve to the automatic feed. Depending on the boilers capacity, you should be able to operate overnight, or at least for several hours before the low-water cutoff kicks in.

frank_25

I've personally installed over 2,500 house heating boilers having been in the trade for 35 years, This is the way I see it: You want the steam to get to your rads quicker?? The only way to do it is to insure that there is a "Quick vent" properly installed on the steam mains, and that there are the proper sized air valves on the rads.(PERIOD) That small boiler you have does not hold a lot of water. The fire under it will raise that water to steam quickly, regardless if the feed is hot or cold. It matters not!! Getting the steam to the rads is the job of the air valves.

Ed_13

Another potential problem

Adding hot water instead of cold water is not a cure for any problem that you have described.

If the boiler has always taken that long to heat then (in my opinion) it is too long, but it is normal for THAT system. However, if it now takes longer to heat than it used to, something in that system has changed.

As others have described, you have to verify if your vents are all sound and that you do not have any wet returns leaking water. Before I go too far in that direction, tell us if you understand what that means. If you do not, no problem, we will describe those issues for you in more detail.

If your boiler is taking much longer than it used to, to make steam and heat all of the radiators, (and you have verified that there is no return leaks or wide open vents that are releasing the system water or steam respectively), you may have a hole in the boiler above the water operating line.

If that is the case, you could be loosing steam up the chimney, and the feeder is adding make up water to replace the water lost through the hole in the form of steam. That would account for the longer heat up time, and would also explain why Mr. plumber wants to feed hot water to the boiler.

However, if the condition I am describing is the actual problem, adding hot water to the boiler will only treat a symptom, instead of identifying and solving the real problem.

If you go outside on a mild day while your boiler is operating and HEATING the radiators, (turn it way up), you should not see steam coming out of your chimney. If you do see steam coming out of your chimney, (and you don’t see it coming from any of your neighbor’s chimneys), then your boiler is loosing steam up the chimney.

Let us know about the vents, returns and the steam from the chimney, and we will spell out the respective problem and the solution.

Regards

Ed Carey

Ed_13

Another potential problem

Adding hot water instead of cold water is not a cure for any problem that you have described.

If the boiler has always taken that long to heat then (in my opinion) it is too long, but it is normal for THAT system. However, if it now takes longer to heat than it used to, something in that system has changed.

As others have described, you have to verify if your vents are all sound and that you do not have any wet returns leaking water. Before I go too far in that direction, tell us if you understand what that means. If you do not, no problem, we will describe those issues for you in more detail.

If your boiler is taking much longer than it used to, to make steam and heat all of the radiators, (and you have verified that there is no return leaks or wide open vents that are releasing the system water or steam respectively), you may have a hole in the boiler above the water operating line.

If that is the case, you could be loosing steam up the chimney, and the feeder is adding make up water to replace the water lost through the hole in the form of steam. That would account for the longer heat up time, and would also explain why Mr. plumber wants to feed hot water to the boiler.

However, if the condition I am describing is the actual problem, adding hot water to the boiler will only treat a symptom, instead of identifying and solving the real problem.

If you go outside on a mild day while your boiler is operating and HEATING the radiators, (turn it way up), you should not see steam coming out of your chimney. If you do see steam coming out of your chimney, (and you don’t see it coming from any of your neighbor’s chimneys), then your boiler is loosing steam up the chimney.

Let us know about the vents, returns and the steam from the chimney, and we will spell out in more detail the respective problem, and the solution.

Good luck

Regards

Ed Carey

Robert O'Connor_7

Anna..

Hot or cold makes no difference. How and where the water is connected to the system does. I'd check the manufacturers installation instructions that came with the feeder, not all allow for hot water feed, and doing so may void warrentee....Robert O'Connor/NJ

Weezbo

are you understanding what he is saying,correctly?

i am fairly certain bypasses of various description work on all manner of boilers.......feed water(Entering water) may be the Return water in his definition ,who knows?.... if He means "feed water" by the water introduced into the system to replace water due to small leaks, combustion processes, trapped air pockets,that sorta number...then it is nonsence. that water useage might be one gallon a season.

tommyoil

First thing I would do

Is throw that plumbers number in the garbage. Then, get a STEAM QUALIFIED professional at once. Try the "find a contractor" link here and try to hook up with someone in your area. Money well spent.