Steam trap question

Jack Lee Bob Folsom

Dan
I have a steam system that we have tried to make more maintenance free and run more efficiently by adding a 71 gal boiler feed tank switch to the low water cut off

The current system is as follows
HB smith 8 section 2500A / 2500L early 1970
Pork chop style boiler
2600 sq ft of steam
2-stage commercial becket gun cf102kd hi fire rate 7.0-11.0
40 minutes to get hot condensate back to the boiler
No steam traps
Hartford Loop
Wet return
Steam is piped directly into the return at the end of the main


The problem that I now have with the installation of the tank is that I have eliminated the Hartford loop and the steam is coming back into the tank and coming out through the tank vent tube
How would you remedy this problem?
Would you recommend eliminating the steam coming directly into the return at the end of the main?
Thanks Jack Lee / Bob Folsom



Jleejr03@aol.com
foldev@aol.com

Kevinj

steam trouble

Can you post a picture ???? Is this a one pipe or two pipe ? Also it sounds like you are trying to run the feed pump from alarm contacts. You should have a feed pump control on the boiler to feed water before burner cut off. Is this for heating or process. Forty minutes seem like a long time to return condensate, is the boiler a long distance from the point of use ?? What is the operating pressure ?? Did you add the tank because of boiler flooding on the off cycle ?

Kevinj

steam trouble

Can you post a picture ???? Is this a one pipe or two pipe ? Also it sounds like you are trying to run the feed pump from alarm contacts. You should have a feed pump control on the boiler to feed water before burner cut off. Is this for heating or process. Forty minutes seem like a long time to return condensate, is the boiler a long distance from the point of use ?? What is the operating pressure ?? Did you add the tank because of boiler flooding on the off cycle ? Sorry to have more questions than answers.

Steamhead

What your question sounds like

is adding a trap to the tank inlet. This is a major no-no. If you use traps they must be installed on each drip.

Did the system have a condensate receiving tank before you modified it? If not, how did the condensate return to the boiler?

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Jack Lee

answers to the questions

The original system is one pipe steam with wet returns that extend from the end of the main supplies to just above the floor pitching back to the boiler. The feed tank is switched by the auxilliary contacts on the low water cut off. The system heats retail stores on the first floor and apartments on the second and third floors. Before the feed tank installation, condensate required 40 minutes of boiler run time to heat the return water at the hartford loop hot to the touch. Yes, the feed tank was added to cure a flooding issue. The feed tank inlet is marginally above the return piping, which the customer and I both knew was a no-no but tried anyway. Initially, the boiler had an under sized oil burner and would operate unitil shut down by low water cut off and fire again once enough condensate returned. The manufacturer sized the proper gun and thats when the flooding started due to the steam rate being proper.

Kevinj

Feed tank

> The original system is one pipe steam with wet

> returns that extend from the end of the main

> supplies to just above the floor pitching back to

> the boiler. The feed tank is switched by the

> auxilliary contacts on the low water cut off.

> The system heats retail stores on the first floor

> and apartments on the second and third floors.

> Before the feed tank installation, condensate

> required 40 minutes of boiler run time to heat

> the return water at the hartford loop hot to the

> touch. Yes, the feed tank was added to cure a

> flooding issue. The feed tank inlet is

> marginally above the return piping, which the

> customer and I both knew was a no-no but tried

> anyway. Initially, the boiler had an under sized

> oil burner and would operate unitil shut down by

> low water cut off and fire again once enough

> condensate returned. The manufacturer sized the

> proper gun and thats when the flooding started

> due to the steam rate being proper.



If I understand your situation, you have taken away the end of main trapping by going to the tank rather than the loop. I believe you need to trap the main in the boiler room before the tank to recreate the end of main trap or the steam will just blow through the tank to atmosphere. There may also be issues with venting at this point. You may want to read some of Dan's books or find your local ITT Hoffman dealer and get some of their books on conversion as you are changing system design.

Kevinj

Feed tank

If I understand your situation, you have taken away the end of main trapping by going to the tank rather than the loop. I believe you need to trap the main in the boiler room before the tank to recreate the end of main trap or the steam will just blow through the tank to atmosphere. There may also be issues with venting at this point. You may want to read some of Dan's books or find your local ITT Hoffman dealer and get some of their books on conversion as you are changing system design. What model pump control are you using ???

Steamhead

Sounds like the return might be almost plugged

If so, the boiler-feed pump is just an expensive Band-Aid. A new return should solve your problem.

If you keep the pump, add a F&T trap to each drip, sized to the amount of radiation it will drain.

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Jack Lee

more answers?

Thanks for responding. The returns are clean. We replaced about 40' combined in leaking return piping and found nothing abnormal. The client has also flushed the low water cut off and both "mud drums" at the boiler base on a regular basis. Each end of the "mud drum" has a ball valve and piping to a pit and again, the client is great about flushing. As for a main return trap I thought that was a no-no? The system has no steam traps and according to Dan's book, "Lost Art of Steam Heating", there should not be one main steam trap.

Joe Lambert

Hey experts, would this work

Putting steam traps everywhere should work but does not seem to be an elegant solution. How about re-estabilishing the loop going into the new tank. This should re-create the wet system and the tank should provide the boiler with the water it needs??