USA pipe/fittings no more?

wayne_11

I am havin a boiler installed on the remodel I am doing this week and the competent plumbing contractor (who happens to be my brother-in law) had several leaks on threaded black pipe connections. All of which involved foreign made nipples. After he drained the boiler and took out the nipples he showed me a comparison to an old USA made nipple he had in a bucket. The USA pipe was definately a thicker wall product. You could tell right away that it was heavier than the imported piece. He said that he has had problems in the past with both threading and even OD size with these nipples. I know myself that I have had pinholes in a couple of fittings from foreign supplies and wonder if this is a common problem and if so what are you guys doing if anything differently to deal with this. I am about to do the near boiler piping in my own house and I looked at what I have stocked for threaded pipe connections. All I own is foreign made. Every fitting and every nipple. Even my "American valves" are made overseas. Getting nervous about this.

Constantin

Overseas origin is not the issue...

...but bad design/quality standards are!

Until US contractors and consumers vote with their feet, supply houses, big box stores, etc. are going to continue to look for the lowest bidder suppliers that they can find. Plus, several contractors here have noted that they found defects even with US-made fittings, albeit at a much lower rate than with cheapie foreign-made ones.

Let's not forget that there are foreign-made fittings that are just as good as the locally-made ones. Otherwise, folks like Danfoss, Caleffi, etc. would not have a hope competing worldwide (after all they're more expensive than the Chinese competiton, right?)

Floyd_7

Buy Ward fittings.....

made a offer to have anyone send me defective Ward fitiings and I would gladly take them to my barber who is a foreman in the Ward Foundry. So far I have recieved 0 fittings......
The offer still stands... I even alerted my barber the last time I got my hair cut.....he said to bring em on......he'd love to see the screwups that his people are missing.

Floyd

clammy

bad pipe

I was told the same thing at uor shop i was cutting threading nipples and everyone had chunks and was cutting like crap .Now bear in mind this is a new set ridgig dies from 1 to 2 there only 1 year old and i cabn't get a decent thread on the pipe both 1 1/2 and 2 i recieved the pipe not long ago i am having a word with the supply house though .It seems it's harder and harder to find american made fitting besides ward plus the higher up don,t believe there any difference accept in being cheaper till it leaks then it's a issue peace clammy

bob_25

Buy

schedule 80 seamless nipples. bob

Big Idahoan

save time

you can defenitly tell the diference from a ward fitting and anything else, i have used alot of other domestic and forign only to come back to ward, there is no comparison. using ward fitting will save you money in labor. also we only used seamless domestic nipples, they just go together better.

Weezbo

I too would agree with your observations ......

pipe that just Crumples ..we ought to go back to making cars outta iron and keep it in the U Sof A ....... some of the nipples from places other are easy to spot they are like a third of the weight....guy handed me one of these 1 &1/2"x12 " BI NIPS THE OTHER DAY AND I SAID WHATS THIS THIS ISNT WHAT I ASKED FOR...YES IT IS ITS A 1&1/2"x12" Hmmm...... well it sure dont seem like it. i have long thought of buying stainless and making headers that Looked "Happening"what do you guys think of Having stainless steel headers....? one thing for sure It Aint Cheap

Dean_7

fittings

As a homeowner I'd buy the stainless header. I have to agree about the quality fittings today. I've had to replace a few and they are much lighter than the old ones and most had casting flaws (I worked in a foundry for 4 summers while going to college years ago and I've also done manufacturing quality control)some were 2/3 the thickness of the casting. Also the threads on many were uneven and not cut to the correct standard.

Dean_7

fittings

As a homeowner I'd buy the stainless header. I have to agree about the quality fittings today. I've had to replace a few and they are much lighter than the old ones and most had casting flaws (I worked in a foundry for 4 summers while going to college years ago and I've also done manufacturing quality control)some were 2/3 the thickness of the casting. Also the threads on many were uneven and not cut to the correct standard.

Sorry I hit the post button twice

tommyoil

Its quite possible

that the nipple in the bucket was a schedual 80 nipple which would inherently make it "thicker". Or with THAT many leaks possibly he only used dope or only used teflon tape instead of using both. Using both is a CHEAP insurance policy against leaks. These things being said, even when I'm forced to used "compromised quality" material(foreign) the only problem I ever had was fittings that have split while tightening them. Never a problem with leaking nipples. I really dont think the fact that they were foreign had much to do with your situation. I could see one MAYBE two leakers. Sorry to say here, but I think the pipefitter had to have missed something.I stick to(as other here do) to Ward or Grinnell fittings and Milwaukee valves. All domestic top quality product. Besides that, I ALWAYS try to employ domestic material all around, which seems to be getting tougher and tougher. It burns my **** that Weil/McClain chooses to put Chinese plugs and fittings in their trim bags. I throw them straight in the garbage. I dont understand that at all. The one thing I really hate is when you do a job and the word CHINA is in raised lettering on the fittings visible for all to see. Sorry, I'll pay more because it will eventually cost you more down the road in taxes and unemployment if you buy ANYTHING foreign. But thats another thread. Be American! Buy American! (and use dope AND teflon tape).

wayne_11

I really believe that in this case there is a material problem. Two of the three leaks I saw were to the left and the right of the word China. Thats one nipple. The third is at the boiler with a China nipple buried in the supply tapping. (I have to say I would have pulled that one right away but the wrench was not in my hand) It makes sense to me that if you are going to reduce the cost of producing a 1-1/4 piece of pipe, other than the quality of the steel, you would reduce the quantity of steel required to make it. If the wall is thinner either the id or od or both have to be off. And that spells threading trouble to me.
My problem is that I never seem to have the means or time frame to prepare and order what I need upfront. My work involves every aspect of construction/remodeling so I have to carry literally tons of misc tools and supplies. When it comes to plumbing, especially larger diameter threaded, I buy most of what I need, when I need it, from where I can get it. Usually the day I need it. I cant justify having a room full of iron and brass when it could be a year before I need an 1-1/2" ball valve again. So I am pretty much at the mercy of what is at the local hd or lowes or what ever is close at job time. My brother in law has the option to stock better stuff. He also can thread his own pipe. I have to do something else. I have to deal with what I got/can get. I will use Tommyoil's advice about tape and dope together. I have never done that. Never really felt a need to try anything different. But if that is the answer so be it. I dont like it though. It makes me angry.

S Ebels

Standards?

Isn't a sch. 40 nipple or piece of pipe supposed to conform to a given and known set of standard dimensions. These ASTM numbers refer to the I.D and O.D. of the pipe. If so , and these imported fittings are indeed different dimension, WHERE THE HECK ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO MONITOR THIS!!!!???