Firomatic Valves

Biged

527 CMR:4.04 PAR 2 (i)

Tom_32

Firomatic Valves

I've been in the HVAC business for 25 years but have only worked with oil for about 9 of those. Everyone installs Firomatic valves on oil lines but I have yet to read a code book that requires them or see a manufacturer specify them. Am I missing something? I think they are a good idea, except when they leak, but every time I hear some one say "it's code", I have to disagree.

Rookie_3

Maybe you are looking for Firomatic which is the brand name.
Look in the 527 where Biged sent you and look for thermal valve. You won't find a mandated temperature but 165 degree
is used the most. One at the tank and one at the burner.

Tom_32

Thanks for the info. By "firomatic valve" I meant a fusible link shut-off valve for the fuel line. CMR only applies to Massachusetts though. Any national codes that you know of that mention them?

Firedragon_4

Many states (besides MA)

require the use of fusible switches and valves, but there is no uniformity with NFPA31-2001 or the IBC code that many states are adopting.

If you work in a jurisdiction it's best to get the facts for that piece of turf and go with it. The OEM's are also a good source for this info. Although Highfield Mfg. Co. (Firomatic) is the largest I believe there are at least two more, Omco Mfg. and Webstone.

Here's a website to get you started:
http://www.highfield-mfg.com/

Steve Eayrs

They leak?

If you have ever had one apart, you will find a seat on both sides of things. I my experience they only leak when they are somewhere in the middle between open and closed. I believe they have to be all the way either direction for the seat to seal.

Or I could be all wet?

Steve

Blackoakbob

fuselink valve

I just installed a GP/Zink burner and specified that it be FM and Minnesota code approved and it came with a fuse link oil valve.
I noticed on some of the pic's posted here the automotive style oil filters used and the colored oil line. I've only used the general and fulflo cartridge style filters could you give me a name of the others?
Regards,

Tom_32

I'm in Pennsylvania

and up until this year, the code has been a nightmare. Every municipality had been able to specify whatever code they wanted to use. That's over 2000 different municipalities statewide! That's why I've read so many different codes. This year fortunately the Governor signed a bill to adopt the ICC 2003 code family statewide. I did not see fusible valves in the ICC code, but I haven't read it all yet. Personally, if I had to choose one, I'd install an oil safety valve before a fusible link. Thank you Mr. Lanthier for your response.

Firedragon_4

I really feel that the fusible valve

and the osv are EQUALLY important.

The fusible is a fire safety device, the osv is a spill device in the way I think you're referring to it as.

I've heard more urban legends and seen more bad data on both than you can shake a stick at, for my money we need a uniform National Code and these guys both belong in it, most importantly installed and used correctly.

BTW, it's George.

Jeff Krawic

firomatics, OSVs and Tigerloop.....

I can only agree with you George 100% that BOTH should be used, under the right circumstances. Now I have a weird question, if you cannot soft solder oil lines, because the solder could melt in a fire, then why is a Tigerloop UL approved???? Buderus used to send their packaged boilers with "flexible" oil lines, made of rubber and corded with nylon on the outside. Is it only me that wonders these things???? Heck I better start changing the magazines on the library seat at home!!! LMAO I have the old film "Explosion Danger Lurks" from the Watts Regulator Company back in the fourties I think. They cause a whole bunch of water heaters to explode from overheating and you should see these fly. Its coooOOOooooool!!! LOL I have some desire to try a tigerloop in a fire situation and see what happens. Lets do a field test on some of these ideas and film them! George, could be a blast,.............NO pun intended! And by the way, great article (again) in the latest Fuel Oil News with B and B Mechanical. I kinda like those guys George! :-)

Bluenose_19

Tigerloops

Canadian code,I believe, states 1000F melting point for anything in oil line, tigerloops definitely would melt before that. tigerloops don't have a ULC or CSA, but Viessman have CSA on there oil units which come with something similar to tigerloops. I've even had to remove spin on oil filter tops which didn't have 1000F rating.

todd s

oil filters

I think you mean Garber filters. The model we use 11bvrk, comes with the mounting bracket and vacum gauge. The colored oil lines are envirotube or protec.

Firedragon_4

Hi Jeff,

Many thanks about the boys at B&B, I missed them too and it's good to see them back in action again. They're not only in Fuel Oil News, but they'll now be showing up in HVAC Insider and New England Progress Magazine too! With three magazines to write for I'll get more chances for them to do their thing!

Okay, as for the solder joints as long as they are copper brazed and over 1000F joints they're legal.

As to flexible lines there is currently no UL standard that applies for fuel oil so most are testing to another (I think it's UL291 or something like that).

The lines (or anything else) being in a box with another item regardless of OEM doesn't necessarily cover the lines as I just found out on a legal matter.

UL is an antiquated group of rules and individuals that have had a monopoly for far too long. Most of this stuff meets TUV in Europe and that is a much higher standard (ISO) and lab, JMO, and so it goes.

Also, most flex lines have a time life rating of about 5 years, after that they need to be replaced. If not, and the excrement hits the discharge unit than someone will be put out to dry as I just saw.

I'm not crazy about swing doors and flex lines and all of their implications and complications. I think that for those that like boilers that will have loose doors :-) eventually that if you want to use them using flex lines makes a lot of sense.

Finally, the Tigerloop. I haven't looked into this recently, but here's what's in my file from the past.

In 1995 the MA Fire Marshal was informed that there were two versions; one that is supposed to be sold with a thermal valve in the box and a solid cover and the other that is not approved for use in MA and in jurisdictions where no approval is necessary. That last part is highly sarcastic in nature since I don't know of any place in North America where that applies.

If I'm wrong I stand corrected and would need and love to see the data, but I've been teaching this for 9 years now and it's been very quiet on my end.

The Afriso unit has TUV approval and that's the end of an argument for me, but it's still awaiting approval in many areas, so...........

Nice to hear from you Jeff and I'll try to stop by and say hello sometime.

Maine Ken

Here are the Maine Rules.

9-9 PIPING, PUMPS AND VALVES.

9-9.1 Supply Connections/Oil Shut-off Valves.

9-9.1.1 A listed lever or wheel, thermally operated oil shut-off valve designed to shut off the oil supply in case of fire, shall be installed at the burner and at the oil supply tank.

9-9.1.1.1 When outside tanks are used, a thermally operated shut-off valve shall be installed where the supply line enters (inside) the building.

9-9.1.1.2 When inside tanks are used and the oil supply tank is installed in a separate room, a thermally operated shut-off valve shall be installed where the line enters the room where the appliance is located.

9-9.1.2 Whenever the oil supply is taken from the top of an oil tank, whether the oil tanks are outside or inside, a thermally operated wheel or lever type shut-off valve shall be installed at the tank and at the burner for control of the fuel. A check valve may be used in the supply line, but no valve or obstruction shall be placed in a return line connected to a burner or pump. A thermally operated valve is required on supply lines from outside tanks at the entrance inside the building and shall be located just inside of the structure wall.

Firedragon_4

You're right, fully open or closed!

Unknown

Which brings the question

If we thermally protect the supply line in case of fire , what's to protect the return line ?