A question of efficiency

Ray Landry

Anyone know any laws related to the level of efficiency a piece of heating equipment can have in a rental home before it is considered to inefficient to run? I rent a house in Mass, and it's heated by a 1948 american standard steamer coal conversion with a p.o.s carlin burner that is way undersized for the unit.. bottom line, it's only 70% efficient, and my landlord refuses to replace it... I even offered to do the replacement for next to nothing (I do plumbing/heating for a living) but they still won't spring for a new boiler... They are stuck on the 'it ain't broke so we don't need a new one' schpeel. So, anyone know if it violates any laws to have something this inefficient in a rental home?

leo g_13

not sure about the law,

Ray, but have you tried to explain to the LL, that if he lets you install an 84+ boiler that he should gain about a 20% fuel savings? Try to show him/her that the payback is relatively quick and then he/she is actually putting more money into their pockets. Unless of course you pay the fuel bills, then it is all for naught!

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Rookie_3

Efficiency? I have a tenant that has electric heat throughout. He says if I put in a boiler, furnace, or
any other heating system he will move. Electric being 100%
efficient still has to cost at least 40% more than a 70% boiler. Sometimes people will not let you help them keep their money in thier pocket.

Ray Landry

Leo, I am lucky enough to have to pay the heating bill, which is why they could really care less how efficient the boiler is... I've heard in the past of laws against leaking windows being enforced and landlords having to keep windows up to par. I'm just hoping there's a similar law in place for boilers..

Mark Hunt

Ray


There are no laws that I know of that would force your LL to upgrade the system due to efficiency issues. Sorry.

I once rented a second floor apartment that was an absolute oven in the summer. I recall coming home from work on a brutally hot summer day and the fan was running on the FHA furnace because the "Fan on" limit had been reached!

I offered to install a A/C system for free if the LL bought the equipment (which I would have gotten at cost), he said he would split the cost of the equipment. I said, "Fine. Which half do you want to keep when I move?"

I gave him my notice that day and found a new place.

I would suggest you look for new lodgings.

Best wishes.

Mark H

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bill_46

the law

I am a OSU slumlord. "Ohio State", I know the law. The law states the tennant will call the city code inforcement on the last month of the lease hoping to get the landlord in hotwater. The Code informant knows this and realizes that the apt. will be upgraded for the next year. Most of my tennants are OSU " students " who will only be in the apt. one yr. and only care about looks. I, on the hand, have put in radiant floor heat with a thermostat in each room and look for the daughters of CEO'S, Drs., lawyers, and PEs. as tennants. The little DARLINGS need the best.

Larry Weingarten

the law?

I'm not sure "the law" is the way to accomplish what you want. I've heard of efficiency upgrades for rental housing, that are funded in various creative ways. Affordable Comfort (affordablecomfort.org) might be a good way to get in touch with someone who knows what's available. And then again I may be too optimistic! :~)
Yours, Larry

Steamhead

Ray, what model American-Standard?

There are ways to slow down the hot flue gases before they leave the boiler, which forces them to give up more heat to the water, and lowers the stack temperature. A good oil tech should be able to do this to most older boilers. Unless you have the proper testing equipment, I'd get a tech to do it.

If the Carlin burner is of the "flame-retention" type, it's one of the better burners out there. It can probably be reset to a more-appropriate firing rate.

I wrote about a job not long ago where I got the stack temperature down 220 degrees on an old round boiler. Here's the link:

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=78524&_#Message78524

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J.C.A._3

Bill

Not to disregared your Landlord status, but you must realize that what Ray pays for rental housing in Mass. would more likely than not cover the mortage on anything but a Mcmansion in Ohio money. Having to pay rent AND a mortage for the fuel bill stinks. Been there, done that and upgraded the burner at my own expence to get the fuel bills down. Payed for itself in the second winter I lived there.

Ray, I would approach the landlord at a time he's feeling good, while handing him the rent check is always a good time, and ask him to meet me halfway if you plan on staying there for a while. If he says no, tell him that your giving him notice that your moving on. If you've been faithful and paid on time every month, haven't PO'd the other neighbors and keep the place in good condition, he shouldn't have any reason to refuse.If he does....follow through.

I know the cost of renting in our fair state and it isn't worth the hassle to have to fight someone to PROVE that you're increasing the value of their property. Chris

J.C.A._3

Bill

Not to disregared your Landlord status, but you must realize that what Ray pays for rental housing in Mass. would more likely than not cover the mortage on anything but a Mcmansion in Ohio money. Having to pay rent AND a mortage for the fuel bill stinks. Been there, done that and upgraded the burner at my own expence to get the fuel bills down. Payed for itself in the second winter I lived there.

Ray, I would approach the landlord at a time he's feeling good, while handing him the rent check is always a good time, and ask him to meet me halfway if you plan on staying there for a while. If he says no, tell him that your giving him notice that your moving on. If you've been faithful and paid on time every month, haven't PO'd the other neighbors and keep the place in good condition, he shouldn't have any reason to refuse.If he does....follow through.

I know the cost of renting in our fair state and it isn't worth the hassle to have to fight someone to PROVE that you're increasing the value of their property. Chris


P.S. Bill, having been a landlord at one time myself, we'd all like to have those kind of tennants but reality is a kick in the pants when you don't have a college nearby. Relying on TENNANTS to pay their rent is a bit more worrisome than expecting and getting a check from "Daddy" every month. J.C.A.

Ray Landry

Steamhead, it is an american standard model IBJI. It looks like the model name is 'severn'. they did combustion test and the gross stack temp was 450 and the net stack temp was 400, or vise versa.. which tells me that something needs to be put in the firebox to slow the gases right? Aren't bricks often used? Don't worry I'm not going to try it myself, there's oil techs at my work that I'll probably ask to look at it... Thanks everyone else for your comments.. I don't plan on living here forecer, so I'm not ready split the cost of the equipment with the landlord.. I offered to put in a new steamer for next to nothing and he didn't seem interested at all... Oh well.

don_42

move no doubt.

I understand what everyone is saying about a more efficent
unit..And I'm sure it would be much cheaper replacing a unit
that higher in efficiency then it woud be to bring up a
discussion on windows and insulation.

I would take that 70% on a tight house verse a 80 or 90%
on a open hole on blocks.
My gas bills went up instead of down when I did that.
I was so glad when that lease ran out.

Steamhead

The Severn boiler

was an "all-fuel" boiler with rather large flue passages. Baffling this boiler with bricks or other suitable material will reduce stack temperature and fuel bills. But you don't want to get the net stack below 300 degrees, to avoid flue gas condensation, and you must make sure the draft in the firebox remains adequate.

The best discussion of this topic I've seen is in Audel's Oil Burner Guide. Published in the 1940s whan millions of old coal boilers were being converted to oil, it contains much information that is still very useful today. You can get a copy for under $10.00 by going here, I already did the search for you:

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?imagefield.x=86&cm_re=A*Search+Box*Form&tn=Audel's+Oil+Burner+Guide&imagefield.y=6

George "Firedragon" Lanthier mentions baffling in his excellent book "Combustion and Oil-Burning Equipment", which you can order at

www.firedragon-ent.com

Even if you don't plan to do the baffling yourself, if you read up on it you'll have a much better idea of what's going on.

It would also be a good idea to check to see that the steam mains (and dry returns too if it's Vapor) are properly vented. This will make sure the steam fills the mains quickly, which will reduce burner run-time.


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