DIY Job PICS & Questions

John_34

is shown below. The other images are the new setup. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions/feedback. Here's what I did......
Created 2 zones, one for the main floor, one for the second floor. I used the existing piping for the main floor zone, disconnecting all second floor connection points. I used all B&G stuff, flo-control valves, circ pumps, EAS, check-trol flanges, and add-a-zone snap on pump relays for zoning. Installed pumps to pump away. I also added a boiler bypass line to minimize thermal shock/boiler condensation (which I have questions about below). I have a total of 18 radiators, 7 of them are (used) installed in a new addition. Balancing valves on all new and a couple of the existing rads. In all, I added about 300' of new copper, I will be insulating all of the copper before winter.

Questions about bypass line:
-How long should the boiler take to reach 140deg? 180deg?

-In regards to cycling on & off, how long should the periods of burner run time last while the thermostat is calling for heat? The way I have the valve set right now, the burner runs about 10 minutes, then is off (reaches high limit of 180)for about 4, then 10 on, etc; all the while the circ pump(s) is/are running because the thermostat is still calling for heat.

-I ask these questions because I want to adjust the valve for maximum efficiency & I don't want to shorten the life of the system.

Thanks in advance!

spt87

I have a setup similar to your before

I hope you get answers to your questions. I need to have some changes similar to yours done to my system. It looks like you have a gravity system converted to forced much like I do. Mine could use a bypass, zoning and maybe a switch to pumping away (I, so far, don't have air problems).

The biggest problem my system has is it is a cold start (no tankless coil) and takes a good 30 to 40 minutes before the water temp is high enough to start adding heat to the living spaces. In moderate whether this looks like a big fuel waster as the boiler runs 40 minutes, then runs another 10 or 15 to add enough heat to the house to satisfy the thermostat. After that it shuts off for the day and that residual heat from the first 40 minutes of firing becomes a major standby loss. I'm thinking with the bypass the boiler will get to operating temp quicker and thus the rest of the system will.

If you have a diagram of what you did or maybe a bit more detail I'd appreciate you posting it here.

RoosterBoy

bob young

wow

looks slightly insane. is this job in bellvue hospital? lol

John_34

B&G website.....

proved to be very valuable learning tool. They have a free book called "Zoning Made Easy 28-page textbook". It's here: http://fhaspapp.ittind.com/literature/BGWebLitBYtype.asp
It's under the miscellaneous heading. Also under the same heading is "How Hydronic System Components Really Work" which was also helpful.

I decided to add B&G flo control valves on both the supply (check-trol), and on the return side (to avoid ghost/gravity flows up into the inactive zone) after having read a B&G article about ghost flows: http://www.bellgossett.com/Press/CounterPointJune2002-A.pdf

My reasons for adding a bypass were both for protection from thermal shock AND to prevent/reduce boiler condensation from too cool return water and very long start-ups like you described. I don't yet know to what degree this will help with the long startups as far as getting heat to the rads, but I do know it must be helping with the boiler operating tempurature because now it reaches the 180 cutoff rather quickly whereas before I don't know if it ever reached 180. I think the zoning will help with the issue of long startups.

I have a tankless coil, but it's only used as a "preheater" for my electric water heater, preheating the water when the boiler happens to be running for heat.

Next year I may go ahead and replace all the large diameter piping in the basement with smaller copper, I think that too will help improve efficency.

The wall too, has been a very good resource.

Hope this info helps. I'm no expert, but if you have any other questions, I'll try to help all I can.

John_34

very funny.....

Do you have anything of value to say?

bob young

a well deserved pat on the back

sure. you get an e for effort and seem to understand the technology of the systems. the pipe work is a little unconventional. but thats only in my world.

S Davis

Backflow

I would put in a backflow preventer if I were you it is cheep insurance to protect your family and guests.

S Davis


Apex Radiant Heating

Weezbo

Whews....That sure must have been alot of work.......

there are some things that are a little unclear to me,i have difficulty seeing the temp gauge on the return after the bypass. which, i also cant determine ,its whereabouts.what size piping is the bypass loop? on your original picture a by pass would go from the supply pipe straight across the front drop90 with a ball valve or zone valve by 90 to the 1&1/2 copper return.after that "T" i'd cut in another "T with a temp gauge(so you could determine what the return to the boiler is was right there upon walking up to it)after that id have a sensor to control the sone valve or the next feature ahead of the pump would be a Purge or boiler drain down valve for various reasons....would you take a picture of the bypass and the temp gauge...i am getting older and cant "focus"on the picture very well.i can help once i get my bearings as it were.

John_34

Thanks weezbo,

The bypass loop is 1-1/4", plumbed according to the piping diagram shown in the manual for my burnham boiler. The bypass is shown below. I don't have any temp guage other than the one on the boiler itself. It seems to heat pretty good. As long as the thermostat calls for heat the burner runs for about 10 minutes, reaches 180 hi limit, then shuts off for about 4 minutes then runs for another 10 minutes; all the while the pump is of course running because the the thermostat is calling for heat. Is this cycling of 10 on / 4 off acceptable for the burner? Is it efficient? I could adjust the bypass valve to make the burner run longer or shorter. I do know that before I made any changes to the system, for example last winter, when the thermostat called for heat the burner would run the entire time, most of the time for at least 45 minutes at a stretch.

Weezbo

oki that helps:)

> The bypass loop is 1-1/4", plumbed according to

> the piping diagram shown in the manual for my

> burnham boiler. The bypass is shown below. I

> don't have any temp guage other than the one on

> the boiler itself. It seems to heat pretty good.

> As long as the thermostat calls for heat the

> burner runs for about 10 minutes, reaches 180 hi

> limit, then shuts off for about 4 minutes then

> runs for another 10 minutes; all the while the

> pump is of course running because the the

> thermostat is calling for heat. Is this cycling

> of 10 on / 4 off acceptable for the burner? Is

> it efficient? I could adjust the bypass valve to

> make the burner run longer or shorter. I do know

> that before I made any changes to the system, for

> example last winter, when the thermostat called

> for heat the burner would run the entire time,

> most of the time for at least 45 minutes at a

> stretch.

Weezbo

Ok That Helps *~/:)

> The bypass loop is 1-1/4", plumbed according to

> the piping diagram shown in the manual for my

> burnham boiler. The bypass is shown below. I

> don't have any temp guage other than the one on

> the boiler itself. It seems to heat pretty good.

> As long as the thermostat calls for heat the

> burner runs for about 10 minutes, reaches 180 hi

> limit, then shuts off for about 4 minutes then

> runs for another 10 minutes; all the while the

> pump is of course running because the the

> thermostat is calling for heat. Is this cycling

> of 10 on / 4 off acceptable for the burner? Is

> it efficient? I could adjust the bypass valve to

> make the burner run longer or shorter. I do know

> that before I made any changes to the system, for

> example last winter, when the thermostat called

> for heat the burner would run the entire time,

> most of the time for at least 45 minutes at a

> stretch.

Weezbo

ok that helps.

now that i can see this let me first say that you can get a fairly reliable strap (Spring)temp sensor that you connect a spring around the pipe and back to the sensor..it has a 2 inch dial face ...this i would put after the "T" you have on the return pipe about 4" below the "T"....then too i belive that to turn that "T" so it looked like -I instead ,.would allow the water to flow a little better. right now the bypass you have could use just a little bit of help from either pump..preferably both. if you have a gauge then you can get some little bit better information to steer by. ..........................my writing skills are horrible ,buh here goes.....from the discharge side of your pumps would be a t this t would be like 3/4" branch that branch would run back to beneath the current "T" you have to another "T" now when That Pump Kicks on It shoots hot water directly into the flow (back to the boilers return side...) if you do that with Both Zones...whenever either or both pumps com on they shoot hot water right back at the boiler. now if that bypass is the optimal lash up from The Bhurnam drawings then what i say will make it work even better.heres why....right now it maybe working well,however its hard to determine how well. you probably could put zone valves that have a set point feature on the branch to the "T" on the return from the discharge side of your recircs,then it will poitively shut off the flow through that branch when the pump kicks off. in this instance i would put the temperature Dial after the LAST"T" back to the boiler.then you would beable to set the temp on each zone one at a time to within a couple degrees of 140. ........then the bypass you currently have will allow some mixed water temp back into the zone that is callin for heat from the field...your recirs will run longer...i would also set the triaquastat to Low side145¡ãF ->175¡ãF.High side. then anytime it falls below 145 the burner will fire.and shut off at 175the pump will whril the water around in the boiler loop and they will also whirl the water around in the "field" the field is seeing whatever it takes to mix the water comming back, up to the set point.(on the return.) sorta fell asleep here for a while....